I haven't met any like that yet-the critics against fsx since its inception and still currently have again made the critics against xplane look like diplomats and even the most recent converts to fsx are still extremely critical.Consider xplane 10 fortunate-it hasn't even begun to go thru what fsx did-perhaps there is a reason why?

no il2? Please, you are not a simmer yet ;)

You left out "Jane's Longbow Gold" and "EECH-Commanche-v-Hokum" :(

I'll agree with everything except the "constant fsx crowd"-that is frankly bunk.a) most hated and rejected fsx till recently and the angst against it was in a logarithmic way hugely larger than anything xplane 10 has faced-trust me-you haven't seen anything and it has been like a babies bottom here. :( Many of the crowd like me is fs1,jet, atp,Yeager, fs2, fs3, fs4, ift pro, fs5, ms5, pro pilot, fly, flight unlimited, pro pilot 99, flight unlimited II, fly II , fuIII, fs2000,fs2002, fs2004,fsx, wings of prey,rof, a few of the jet fighter flight sims that elude me now, and all the xplane's, and a dozen or more others I have forgotten-since 1981.I'd rather call it simming experience on a wide variety of platforms-saying it is the fsx crowd is innacurate-period...at least call us what we are...:-) even though it will take a long time to quote all the sims...

I agree with you here.... some of the guys have decided that this is a FSX vs XPX war, and as a result, they fail to see/hear the issues that buyers and POTENTIAL buyers are having with XPX. Some of these same guys will beat you over the head for making a XPX criticisms but will freely make FSX criticisms in the FSX forums. Its interesting to sit back and observe this dynamic... however, I think that most see this dichotomy.

First off, I'm not an 18 yr/ old punk, sir.

You know VERY well I didn't mean YOU are an 18 yo punk, so you take that statementout of context on purpose. Read the first sentence of your own initial post again;(The rest of your post doesn't even deserve a quote.)

Admins, better delete now. OK, Clouds look good, night looks great, that's where this ends

As you can see, you knew even BEFORE you hit the "post" button that the content of your post would provoke bigtime.In other words you INTENTIONALLY did the opposite of what you (hopefully) do in your daily work at Henderson, NV PD whichis being diplomatic and respect people with another opinion/background than you.M

I agree with you here.... some of the guys have decided that this is a FSX vs XPX war, and as a result, they fail to see/hear the issues that buyers and POTENTIAL buyers are having with XPX. Some of these same guys will beat you over the head for making a XPX criticisms but will freely make FSX criticisms in the FSX forums. Its interesting to sit back and observe this dynamic... however, I think that most see this dichotomy.

YOU chose the word "war". No one else did. Just because we would like people to take a look at x plane, doesn't mean we need to take $hit from them. It's all about opinions, right?And when those criticisms are made in the FSX forums, the head beating is reciprocated...either in there or in here. Not just with the x plane users, but even more-so with FSX users against FSX users.I find it rather hilarious!

Have you tried the modified C172 flight model I made available. Joystick settings on default. Not one criticism about it.

Hi Gornan,I downloaded your C172, ran it, smiled all the way. Can you put the file link up again so I can save it properly this time?I need to put it on my flash stick for future use.I am afraid that when I run the XPX updates in the future it may get over-written.Thank you,Chuck

http://dl.dropbox.co...essna_172SP.acfRight clickSelect "Save link as..."And I DO welcome ANY criticisms or compliments.I don't mind refining it further.

Thanks for the quick reply, got it,Chuck

First off, I'm not an 18 yr/ old punk, sir. I'm a 35 year old police officer and pilot.

Then perhaps it's time to consider how you present yourself in these forums. I, too, thought you were much younger and did a double-take just now when you claimed to be 35.As Morten pointed out, you made it clear from your very first sentence that you came here itching for a fight, so don't act surprised when a fight is exactly what you got.

To assume that Laminar will change everything about x plane just to accommodate the new people who are willing to expand to x plane is completely unreasonable.

It is equally unreasonable to expect new and potential customers who are accustomed to a certain level of completeness in the software they purchase to not be frustrated and upset at the current quality of the product they received in the mail in December. At least CaptainSim (*an FSX 3rd party dev) lets you know up front about their type of "trust us, we'll finish it later" approach.When you look at the newly refreshed X-Plane website, do you get the impression that you are purchasing the quality of product they shipped to you this month? Is a flight sim enthusiast going to even notice that the screenshots on the website in the "Airports" category are ALL from Seattle? It would take a very clever person to "see" the omissions in all the information presented and glean from that the current state of affairs.From the website, "This is the flight model, flexability, realism, and detail we believe a flight simulator should have."They failed to finish their thought by sayng... "...but we didn't have time to finish it, so bear with us while we work for 2, 4, 8, 12 more months to get it all buttoned up. And while we're at it, could you add buildings to the airports for us? Thanx."

I'm not sure about the 20 000+ airports but I do remember a statement from either Tom Kyler (Who made Seattle) or Austin himself saying that only Seattle will be a detailed airport.

From the AVSIM X-Plane 10 preview interview with Austin himself...

2. What about the simulation of small, medium and international airports (gates, buildings, aprons, cargo area, etc.)?

These will be

generic

, but there will be content there. In addition our scenery tools will allow 3rd party developers to build out custom airports, with gates, vehicles, and buildings.

Although this interview was from April 2011, we all know how this scenario wound up. At least we can now say that Laminar had at least planned to outfit airports with generic content but then decided against it or decided to not give it enough time.For those with specific and/or vested interests, X-Plane 10 may be a great tool for their flight sim entertainment needs.For a great many others with more general interests and honestly modest expectations, X-Plane 10 is going to prove to be a disappointment at this time.For those of us flight sim addicts with concerns about X-Plane and the willpower to not have purchased it yet, its going to be a long winter as we wait for things to change and improve. Here's to the new year!

Ok, a slight correction of my own post. Amazon.de and Amazon.co.uk don't sell X-Plane 10 right mow, it is nonly a preorder for the 17th of February. w

YOU chose the word "war". No one else did. Just because we would like people to take a look at x plane, doesn't mean we need to take $hit from them. It's all about opinions, right?And when those criticisms are made in the FSX forums, the head beating is reciprocated...either in there or in here. Not just with the x plane users, but even more-so with FSX users against FSX users.I find it rather hilarious!

I hear ya .. and it can be entertaining. I chose the word "war" because of the aggressiveness I see by some folks. I see the personal attacks being made against people that have simply posted their opinion. The personal attacks are not additive to the community. Provide addition information to the person posting an opinion that is not agreeable ... but dont personally attack him. GoranM, my comments are not comments solely for you .. they are for all that are making the personal attacks.

WHAT IS THE ROADMAP FOR X-PLANE v10 ?What I'd like to know is if Austin, Ben or Laminar or any of their chosen spokesperson, think their product is superior, better, has better this or that and feel that all the criticism is unfair, unjustified or unwarranted, LET THEM DEFEND IT ! AND NO, we don't want some 3rd party, contractor, part-time or full time employee/janitor, retailer, or somebody claiming to be loosely "associated" or "working with" Laminar doing the "xplaning". LET'S MAKE IT PUBLIC AND OFFICIAL ! Surely, that's not unreasonable to expect, is it ?When will Laminar come out and tell us EXACTLY WHAT THE CURRENT AND POTENTIAL USERS CAN EXPECT OVERALL FROM V10 AND WHEN ? We have been sold a bill of goods with no definite promises of what or when, even though they know the product is incomplete, buggy, unpolished, less than meets the eye and appears to be less than v9 in some respects thus far - ofcourse they won't admit this publicly.But, admiission of the problem is but a first step towards recovery. Hopefully, the many current and potential customers know that the product is "not quite ready for prime time". The issue is does Laminar correctly comprehend the problem from the users' standpoint and what they are willing to do about it.SO, HERE'S YOUR OPPORTUNITY, LAMINAR :Tell us what the roadmap and timeline for X-plane v10 is over its roughly 2 year lifespan ? Or is it the same as usual - whack-a-mole - one bug at a time till you get tired or bored of updating and/or are in need of more sales/revenue - time for a new version and the cycle repeats ?When can current and potential users expect a roadmap along with a timeline ?WHEN CAN WE EXPECT TO HEAR FROM YOU ?

Edited January 1, 201214 yr by m_av

M_AV,Send an email to Austin and have a chat with him!

Then perhaps it's time to consider how you present yourself in these forums. I, too, thought you were much younger and did a double-take just now when you claimed to be 35.As Morten pointed out, you made it clear from your very first sentence that you came here itching for a fight, so don't act surprised when a fight is exactly what you got.

As Morten pointed out, you made it clear from your very first sentence that you came here itching for a fight, so don't act surprised when a fight is exactly what you got.

Well..................When you read marketing hype from X-Plane's own website:X-Plane is the world’s most comprehensive and powerful flight simulator for personal computers, and it offers the most realistic flight model available.X-Plane is not a game, but an engineering tool that can be used to predict the flying qualities of fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft with incredible accuracy.Because X-Plane predicts the performance and handling of almost any aircraft, it is a great tool for pilots to keep up their currency in a simulator that flies like the real plane, for engineers to predict how a new airplane will fly, and for aviation enthusiasts to explore the world of aircraft flight dynamics.You're going to get initial comments such as those, afforded in the initial post. Many of the included planes, are far from life like. They should have been weeded out a long time ago.