All you know about me is what I have revealed on these forums.You make assumptions and draw conclusions based on what you believe to be true - and some of what you you believe to be true is not what I have revealed. Suffice it to say that I don't have to prove anything to anyone - merely expressing opinions like you and every other member here. I don't EXPECT anyone to take what I have to say as the gospel truth, but it is the truth based on my experiences.But as I have said in the past, I do not wish to engage in personalities, character abuses or assasinations - with you or anybody else. I do have my weaknesses at times, like all mortals. I try hard to keep them in check.So let me remind you and everyone else, who may or may not care, that :"Focus on the message, NOT THE MESSENGER".DISAGREE WITH THE MESSAGE, BY ALL MEANS - I welcome that. I respect your right to voice your opinion too.

@Alan,Glad your enjoying your new venture, I once had a VA totally dedicated to A2A's Piper Cub, but found the flight experience for me was better in XP.Happy Flying!

I think I remember your Cub VA.I'm still sitting in both worlds - when I'm in X-Plane, I miss my Cub (and all the other A2A aircraft and the atmosphere that's built into them). But when I'm in my Cub, I miss the X-Plane feel of flight..The more I work with X-Plane, the better I like it.

Well said, Alan.A big handsake and hurrah, goes our way.

Alan, the extension is really only for center mounted sticks. I would not advise it if you had any other configuration. All I can say is if you cannot center mount the stick then don't try one with an extender, it could be heartbreaking lol ;)

it could be heartbreaking lol ;)

Or something else could get broken... :wink:Thanks. I could always look into center mounting - the Joyloc trays bolt on with clamps, so they're easy to remove. It might even be possible to shift one of the trays to a center position. I think I'll keep working with the sensitivities first, but I'll see what's involved in the extenders, too.Thanks for the additional detail.

Well said, Alan.A big handsake and hurrah, goes our way.

You're most welcome.Maybe we can give peace a chance...

The x-plane creators have made it clear that the initial release is pretty bare bones with a lot more to come. If you go to Manhattan there are bridges kind of floating in the air... I am still having fun with this sim; and run the updater often to see what is coming next. I anticipate a lot of good things to come.

The x-plane creators have made it clear that the initial release is pretty bare bones with a lot more to come

Sorry but this is a point I have tried to make in this thread. The people who are marketing xplane are pushing out standard marketing hype that in no way describes it as you suggest. If people buy xplane based on push advertising or desriptions at one of the online stores then I can certainly have empathy with them if it's not to their expectations. LR are marketing tyhis to a group who do not live in these forums and they are marketing it with information contrary to what you are saying.

On a lighter note.I hope everyone has a great happy, healthy & prosperous New Year!Blue Skies!

So, it ####### us off when some 18 yo punk or comes in here and tells us that we have waisted the last 10+ years of our lives and that we don'tknow how an aircraft should perform and that the other sim is much better in every way. Because thats BS!And XP is not "just a game", X-Plane is also a hobby that some of us are passionate about, a great engineering tool, a trainer, and a fantasticwaist of time!So yes we will defend it from ignorance and "first impression" rants like yours which are counter productive, demotivating,intentionally exaggerated and unfair to a community which up until now mostly is driven by freeware contributions.In addition, there is a huge commercial FS industry present in this forum that has financial interests in X-Plane NOT succeedingsince they have large investments in FS that will get lost if the users jump ship. So some here also have an agenda.So it's posts like yours that are a threat to simulator diversity in general - and yes that ####### me off.M

First off, I'm not an 18 yr/ old punk, sir. I'm a 35 year old police officer and pilot. You call my post ignorant? Why, because it's critical? You know what should ### you off about XP, is the fact that it's incomplete, not that someone doesn't love it as much as you. Your post is more like an immature 18 yr/old kid than mine will ever be, because again, I don't take personal shots at you, I'm just a XP'er who has his concerns, like MANY. You are not worth any more of my time, I'll continue this with more civil, good AVSIM folks. :(

On a lighter note.I hope everyone has a great happy, healthy & prosperous New Year!Blue Skies!

To you as well!

To you as well!

Yes, Happy Holidays and New Years to everyone!

LR are marketing tyhis to a group who do not live in these forums and they are marketing it with information contrary to what you are saying.

Exactly. Some of you might not have realised it, but X-Plane 10 is sold right now via amazon.co.uk or amazon.de .How many beta versions are normally sold via Amazon for the full price?This is the real problem. Laminar might not havbe been interested in a direct comparisson with Microsoft, but they will be compared with the De-Facto standard. Although I must admit that X-Plane has in Europe one big advantage: The maps are pretty much spot on with the roads and waterways. A few additional architecture styles and special objects like the common Wind Turbines and you have a very decent competitor. The maps are simply on a different level compared with FSX and the ground textures are spot on while the standard terrain type from FSX was completly wrong.But the big problems are:If you had X-Plane 9 installed on this computer you won't be able to install unless you find via google to X-Plane.com with the corrected installer and you have to install the updates with the help of the Update installer from this place. Add to this the problem that you have to redefine the keyboard since many commands won't work with the different keyboard layouts of a german keyboard and you have a very steep step for a normal user...It doesn't matter that X-Plane doesn't want to compete witzh Microsoft. They are in competition, since customers are looking for alternatives!

First off, I'm not an 18 yr/ old punk, sir. I'm a 35 year old police officer and pilot. You call my post ignorant? Why, because it's critical? You know what should ### you off about XP, is the fact that it's incomplete, not that someone doesn't love it as much as you. Your post is more like an immature 18 yr/old kid than mine will ever be, because again, I don't take personal shots at you, I'm just a XP'er who has his concerns, like MANY. You are not worth any more of my time, I'll continue this with more civil, good AVSIM folks. :(

VegaSS, putting it simply, you do not have all the facts about x plane. The entire x plane community is vastly different to the MSFS community. Different in what we expect, what kind of support is offered, the complete lack of exaggerated criticisms against developers or the sim itself. To assume that Laminar will change everything about x plane just to accommodate the new people who are willing to expand to x plane is completely unreasonable. Yet Laminar are being faulted for it. And in a lot of cases, it's a huge deal breaker. "I'm not getting X Plane 10 because the UI sux!". Come on. The UI is different so they're not getting X Plane. It just seems like an excuse to criticize it some more. And the other one is because the urban areas are lacking, so that's another dealbreaker. No one is saying the cities don't need big improvement. But in the larger scheme of things, is it really THAT bad that it drags everything else about the sim down. Cities make up a very small percentage of the world. The terrain in the rural areas is outstanding. The night lighting, cloud and fog effects, HDR, all outstanding. The flight model, regardless what other back seat pilots think, is outstanding. I've even gone and modified the default C172 flight model and offered it up for download to those who wish to see what x plane is capable of. Over 150 downloads in about 4 days and NO ONE came forward to criticize it. And that was just a 3 minute mod I made. Imagine what I could do in a few weeks.One thing I've noticed is when someone throws up some outstanding type of screenshot, no one says a thing. But when someone makes a post about how empty the cities look, it blows up to a 7 page thread about how bad x plane is.What I find hilarious and motivating at the same time is that most x plane developers who read these criticisms work a lot harder to make some much better quality add ons. I remember "colts" posting something about x plane having low polygon aircraft with minimal textures. Hmm, my DC-3, with all of it's 1.3 million polygons, just MIGHT prove him wrong.If you knew X Plane, you would know who Morten M is. He has definitely paid his dues and if anyone in x plane think they know more than him about flight models, they would be kidding themselves. So yes, it does ###### us off when we read things like "the flight model will NEVER be like FSX" and "Why can't we get PMDG, Captain Sim, OrbX, etc... over to X Plane, then I would get it."What makes you think the equivalent of those developers isn't over at x plane now?

VegaSS, putting it simply, you do not have all the facts about x plane. The entire x plane community is vastly different to the MSFS community. Different in what we expect, what kind of support is offered, the complete lack of exaggerated criticisms against developers or the sim itself. To assume that Laminar will change everything about x plane just to accommodate the new people who are willing to expand to x plane is completely unreasonable. and "Why can't we get PMDG, Captain Sim, OrbX, etc... over to X Plane, then I would get it."What makes you think the equivalent of those developers isn't over at x plane now?

But LR are trying to lure in fsx people and new people to the sim, only for them to find out that their expectations need to be different from any other piece of software they may have paid money for. I completely understand what you are saying and I get it. I have been there on various projects that I have got a lot of fun from but there is no denying that LR are trying to attract new people who will have different expectations so I can blame LR. We have talked about the marketing banter 'as real as it gets', the one upmanship between developers. I don't mind it, it's kind of fun but if you are going to compare yourself you can't take the money and then say we do things differently later. You cant say your marketing is just be a fun poke in the face if it sets any expectation that isn't met. On the developers, I am sure they are there. They are not developing for New Zealand and that's where I like to fly and thats why the sim, for the time being, will be used for specific scenarios only. Just to add. I didnt know about the way LR works when I got the demo so I learned a lot about xplane and what to expect. I bought it anyway, as I have bought in to stuff like this in the past. I can say that if I bought it because it had popped up on fspilotshop and didn't know this I would be really upset, hence why I can really sympathise with others even though I am the kind of guy to buy in to this approach.

The flight model, regardless what other back seat pilots think, is outstanding. I've even gone and modified the default C172 flight model and offered it up for download to those who wish to see what x plane is capable of. Over 150 downloads in about 4 days and NO ONE came forward to criticize it. And that was just a 3 minute mod I made. Imagine what I could do in a few weeks.

In other words.............The "modified" flight models can be outstanding!As I've said before.............the best models of X-Plane and MSFS need a bit of voodoo and black magic (aka programming genius). Not just pure engineering and physics.