Thats probably a strickly Vatsim arrangement, I know in 40 years of flying I have been asked numerous times to increase/decrease speed for spacing and traffic by a tower controller, and normally I am swtiched to the tower well before the FAF.

I have too. I don't think there's really anything that prohibits it in the general sense. I don't know what the RW LOA's for ATL look like, and RW ATL twr has made similar requests too us as well. So have numerous other twrs. I was just citing what I know of KATL ops on VATSIM. Also, just like RW, controllers take lattitude if it become necessary.

As far as slowing once they are on towers frequency, there is little the tower controller can do to slow or speed up aircraft when on final. This should have and would have been taken care of by the approach controller as they are responsible for a/c until the a/c crosses the runway threshold. Not sure where this came from....once you are switched to the tower freq, they are the responsible controller, and that is usually well before the FAF

True, but use caution when the aircraft are on an ILS approach.5-9-5. APPROACH SEPARATION RESPONSIBILITYa. The radar controller performing the approach control function is responsible for separation of radar arrivals unless visual separation is provided by the tower, or a letter of agreement/facility directive authorizes otherwise. Radar final controllers ensure that established separation is maintained between aircraft under their control and other aircraft established on the same final approach course.5-7-1. APPLICATIONb. Do not assign speed adjustment to aircraft: 4. Inside the final approach fix on final or a point 5 miles from the runway, whichever is closer to the runway.d. Approach clearances cancel any previously assigned speed adjustment. Pilots are expected to make their own speed adjustments to complete the approach unless the adjustments are restated.Hope this helps/clears some things up!

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by jarhead565

"Skywest 666, cleared for the ILS 25L, contact tower on 125.9 at the outer marker" Not too far before the Final approach fix if the tower controller is busy, but no later than the FAF as the Tower guys are usually manageing the Final segment to give landing clearance.If your flying IFR into a non controlled airport where the tower is closed and it has a valid IFR approach that doesn't require radar, then the terminal controller will ask you to switch to CTAF (Advisory Frequency) at the FAF where he lets go of you and relinquishes control. If your flying IFR and not on frequency with a terminal radar controller and making position reports to an FSS (very rare nowadays as most of the United states has radar coverage) then you make your last report to FSS at the FAF and switch to the CTAF freq to shoot the approach.In an IFR environment the FAF inbound (in terms of an approach with a procedure turn) is the standard fix to switch to tower or CTAF. In case of com failure and in IMC, this is what ATC or the FSS is gonna expect you to do.JB

I talked to an ERJ-145 pilot for American eagle a few years ago who said at ORD they routinely ask them to maintain 250 to the marker (the ERJ-145 VNE speed under 10k is 250 so they would maintain 240). Like the CRJ 100/200, the ERJ can also slow down very quickly. Ben

"Skywest 666, cleared for the ILS 25L, contact tower on 125.9 at the outer marker" Not too far before the Final approach fix if the tower controller is busy, but no later than the FAF as the Tower guys are usually manageing the Final segment to give landing clearance.If your flying IFR into a non controlled airport where the tower is closed and it has a valid IFR approach that doesn't require radar, then the terminal controller will ask you to switch to CTAF (Advisory Frequency) at the FAF where he lets go of you and relinquishes control.If your flying IFR and not on frequency with a terminal radar controller and making position reports to an FSS (very rare nowadays as most of the United states has radar coverage) then you make your last report to FSS at the FAF and switch to the CTAF freq to shoot the approach.In an IFR environment the FAF inbound (in terms of an approach with a procedure turn) is the standard fix to switch to tower or CTAF. In case of com failure and in IMC, this is what ATC or the FSS is gonna expect you to do.JB

Every facility is different. This would all be coordinated via a LOA.

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by jarhead565

Every facility is different. This would all be coordinated via a LOA.

Whats an LOA?IJB

Letter of agreement

Whats an LOA?IJB

Letter of Agreement. Like a Memorandum of Understanding. Or a Missive of Congruency. Epistle of Parallelism.

Vatsim letter of agreement I assume?JB

 

Vatsim letter of agreement I assume?

They exist in both realms.

Vatsim letter of agreement I assume?JB

Real world.All airports and their associated approach controls have LOA's. Approaches and their adjacent approaches have LOA's. Approaches and the center above them have LOA's. Centers and their adjacent centers have LOA's. Pretty much everyone has multiple LOA's. The reason? So that there is some sort of order between various facilities and that it is not just a free for all.

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by jarhead565

Real world.All airports and their associated approach controls have LOA's. Approaches and their adjacent approaches have LOA's. Approaches and the center above them have LOA's. Centers and their adjacent centers have LOA's. Pretty much everyone has multiple LOA's. The reason? So that there is some sort of order between various facilities and that it is not just a free for all.

Are you saying that specific LOA's in the real aviation world might ammend very specific IFR operating procedures stated in the AIM and I believe the FAR's, such as, when your expected or normaly switch frequencies to tower?In that case, wouldn't these LOA's be published, either in the plates, Airport Facility Directory or just stated in a NOTAM?JB

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by Buzz313th

Jack,Sort of. What you're describing is more SOP than LOA. The general understanding is that you should switch on your own when you're ready and short of the runway, but some facilities specify when a ground controller would say "monitor tower on [freq]" preemptively, in order to cut frequency congestion if the tower is busy.As a different example, it's things like altitudes Center must have aircraft at when handing off. As an example, aircraft from ZDC (Washington Center) should be at 15,000 over DOCCS for the handoff to PCT (Potomac TRACON), per the LOA.If you look at the WZRRD arrival into KDCA, you'll see that this information is in fact published, you just probably never thought of it as related to an LOA. So, yes, it should be published, and in most cases, it is, but in various yet relevant spots. If it's not, it's given by the controller anyway, and doesn't need to be published. Since some procedures are slightly more sensitive, it's best to keep LOAs away from public view.It's almost like an inter-facility SOP.

Why send someone around if you can avoid it? A sidestep isn't that bad of a procedure, especially with EDDF's runways being so close together. I'm glad the check pilot told him to listen to the controller. They're there to get us where we need to go safely and efficiently. Very rarely do they do something to intentionally inconvenience anyone, but some pilots treat them like they do.

I agree, It's the "No choice" I have a problem with...Bert Van Bulck

Jack,Sort of. What you're describing is more SOP than LOA. The general understanding is that you should switch on your own when you're ready and short of the runway, but some facilities specify when a ground controller would say "monitor tower on [freq]" preemptively, in order to cut frequency congestion if the tower is busy.As a different example, it's things like altitudes Center must have aircraft at when handing off. As an example, aircraft from ZDC (Washington Center) should be at 15,000 over DOCCS for the handoff to PCT (Potomac TRACON), per the LOA.If you look at the WZRRD arrival into KDCA, you'll see that this information is in fact published, you just probably never thought of it as related to an LOA. So, yes, it should be published, and in most cases, it is, but in various yet relevant spots. If it's not, it's given by the controller anyway, and doesn't need to be published. Since some procedures are slightly more sensitive, it's best to keep LOAs away from public view.It's almost like an inter-facility SOP.

Very interesting.. I never knew that. Years ago, at flight safety, they took us (a small class) over to the tracon facility to visit the controllers. Then years later, I took a date up to the Vny twr to show her what these guys guys do and last but not least, when Point Magu approach instructed me to land Camarillo and contact the tower on a landline for violating restricted airspace, but thats the closest I ever got to em.Learn somethin new every day.ThanksJB

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by Buzz313th