Then please excuse us ignorant people who won't adapt to:No real world weather, no addons, no AI, no ATC, no world outside Hawaii, no slew, no realism settings, no way to disable auto coordination, no way to tweak aircraft performance, the exclusion of freeware, the exclusion of pay ware, no user menu, no nav aids, no ILS, no radio chatter, no working radios, no working nav equipment, no gps, no way to start on a ramp...shall I go on? Hell they been took away the moving traffic and boats! The world is dead, just YOU flying around collecting coins...or up to 20 of your favorite friends on MS games live looking for aero caches. You talk about expansions? I'm talking about just getting BASIC functionality back! and as far as addons, do you really believe that MS will replace the thousands of freeware and pay ware that make the FS world vibrant? They're going to have to since they removed any way for you to manually add sceney. How about the hundreds of airplanes? Since you can't add them manually any more. The scenery and aircraft folders are now proprietary DLLs...no texture folder no aircraft.cfg, no nothing.To me the epitome of ignorance is the ostrich who knows what looms ahead but sticks his head in the sand to pretend it is not there.

Well, Mike, I certainly understand your arguments. BUT you´re basing this on some leaked video material (I´ve also seen it.) which doesn´t show all these things you´ve said. Bud does this mean it won´t be integrated?! Ms said that there will be arcade featrures for beginners and casual gamers AND more advanced settings for the hardcore ones. I have to say that I´m also not really happy with what´s known yet but well, don´t we have FSX to fly?

Didn't we all have done it to ourselves?There was VERY little info from MS.They announced FLIGHTNobody told us it was a successor to FSXWe all made it up, hyped our own expectations, the tought was the father of the idea or something.Speculations ran wild, untill we saw what it is. And now we are dissapointed? maybe in our expectations.

Thanks, these are ecaxtly my thoughts! :(;

Johan_DeesWith all dues respect, I disagree. Microsoft announced that it would target the new user while in their opinion satisfy the avid existing enthusiast. On the latter, in my opinion, they completely dropped the ball (based on what has been reported here). Enough information and leaked videos clearly indicate an extremely limited offering in a completely closed environment. This is not in any way going to "satisfy the avid existing enthusiast" who by the rights of 25 years of loyalty to the franchise expect more when claims like this are made, not a whole lot less.Bob

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by Toys_R_Us

Well, you might be right, but how much?We cant look in the corporate minds, were they thinking: "for 8 0 % for the new user, and keep 20% for the expirienced users? Sure it looks like FSX, so they will like it tough? There is an altimeter, they love it."As I said, we expected FSX successor on a few words from MS. We hyped it in our dreams, but in the meanwhile it was just a sentence, and they focussed on totally different thing.I saw it with the SilentHunter series also, same story.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by Johan_Dees

Didn't we all have done it to ourselves?There was VERY little info from MS.They announced FLIGHTNobody told us it was a successor to FSXWe all made it up, hyped our own expectations, the tought was the father of the idea or something.Speculations ran wild, untill we saw what it is. And now we are dissapointed? maybe in our expectations.

Absolutely false. All anyone did was go on the past record of the franchise which spans more than 25 years. No one could have imagined that they would have radically gutted the title and then totally reversed themselves in their attitude to the addon community and the FS community in general. If today you were driving on the same road that you have for 25 years but today you fall into the ocean because last night they removed the bridge without telling you would that be your fault? What about if they sent out a letter to you a few weeks before to say they were building a beautiful smooth new road for you to enjoy....would you not assume that includes the ability to drive the entire length of the road without falling into the ocean?

 

I saw it with the SilentHunter series also, same story.

Uh, SilentHunter 3!! I´ve got it on my shelfe and play from time to time. Quite nice! :smile:But back to topic now.

Again, you are making assumptions on what I'm basing my facts on while it is you who are making all the assumptions. I won't argue the point except to say that YOU are completely wrong and I'll put $50 on it, unlike Jim who welched on his bet I'll actually pay you if I'm the one whose wrong. Want to put your money where your assumptions are?

Part of this confusion might come down to understanding some very technical vocabulary. Here's a summary of most people's issue with Flight as it stands now:FSX is great because of the 3rd party add on. Without PMDG, Orbx, Realair, and a dozen other vital companies, the sim is junk, period. Now, all of these companies exist because the sim platform is "open", and Microsoft provided an 'SDK' or 'Software Development Kit' to allow 3rd parties to write add-on software. Without the SDK, you have almost no potential for add-on's.Microsoft came out and said clearly there will be no SDK for Flight. They've also treated some notable 3rd party companies very badly, IMO. All of this points to a "MS Only" platform, and that has little chance of being something we will enjoy. If they change their stance on any of this, the situation would be very different, but we can only work with what we know today.So then, if you purchased FSX, and fly the default C172 around the default scenery with the default weather, then Flight might be exactly the upgrade you want. I don't think this description is accurate for the vast majority of the folks on this forum.Hope that helps clears it up.Regards,G

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by gmohr

After reading this: http://forum.avsim.n...ghts-on-flight/ (Must read)I think any hope I had left for Microsoft Flight has just gone completelty.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by MattGarner

Hi,No SDK speaks "VOLUMES" in regards to the future of Flight, I find it hard to believe that there are some individuals that are unable to grasp the reality of what this actually means.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

Actually, things are much worse than just Flight not being FSXI.MS made sure that nobody will be developing anything to replace FSX while they putz around with Flight's devel...err downgrading.When MS announced Flight, they effectively killed the Aerosoft development of their simulator.MS got 3PDs involved in the beginning, getting as much out of them as possible to advance their game and then cut them loose. These developers wasted a lot of time and effort over two years, which could have been far better spent if MS had not outright lied to the entire community.They even had the gall to invite serious flight sim forum admins to demonstrate how exactly they screwed everyone!Perhaps the only good thing was to put some heat on LR to make a better XP10, but that heat was just not enough apparently as XP10 has a long way to go yet.Now that MS is out of the FS scene, I see a glorious opportunity for the 3PDs (software and hardware) to get together, ante up some funds and develop a simulator that we can all get behind. Please do not point at P3D... there is only so much that can be done with that code base. We need to start from scratch, with a 64-bit platform and an SDK. Let everyone loose on developing stuff and within 5 years, we'll have a simulator the community wants.I can see people paying $120/year over 5 years to a company that clearly has our interest in mind. Unfortunately, neither LM nor LR get my vote on this.

Part of this confusion might come down to understanding some very technical vocabulary. Here's a summary of most people's issue with Flight as it stands now:FSX is great because of the 3rd party add on. Without PMDG, Orbx, Realair, and a dozen other vital companies, the sim is junk, period. Now, all of these companies exist because the sim platform is "open", and Microsoft provided an 'SDK' or 'Software Development Kit' to allow 3rd parties to write add-on software. Without the SDK, you have almost no potential for add-on's.Microsoft came out and said clearly there will be no SDK for Flight. They've also treated some notable 3rd party companies very badly, IMO. All of this points to a "MS Only" platform, and that has little chance of being something we will enjoy. If they change their stance on any of this, the situation would be very different, but we can only work with what we know today.So then, if you purchased FSX, and fly the default C172 around the default scenery with the default weather, then Flight might be exactly the upgrade you want. I don't think this description is accurate for the vast majority of the folks on this forum.Hope that helps clears it up.Regards,G

NO I'm sorry but even FSX default has more features than flight. And of course an SDK.

In other words: This game is not supposed to replace your FSX simulation.... You are not the target audience.

He said it quite understandable and clear. That´s why I´m wondering about lots of guys here are bashing against MS.

Again, you are making assumptions on what I'm basing my facts on while it is you who are making all the assumptions. I won't argue the point except to say that YOU are completely wrong and I'll put $50 on it, unlike Jim who welched on his bet I'll actually pay you if I'm the one whose wrong. Want to put your money where your assumptions are?

Me?

After reading this: http://forum.avsim.n...ghts-on-flight/ (Must read)I think any hope I had left for Microsoft Flight has just gone completelty.

Thanks a lot!

First, I have not seen any official information from MS that there will not be an SDK for MSF. All I've seen are forum comments by one or two third-party developers that were not given an SDK after business negotiations with MS broke down becuase MS wants all add-ons to be purchased through MSF and the developers want to be able to indepently distribute. For all we know there are numerous third-party developers working with MSF on add-ons at this very moment.Second, MS has never said there will not be a robust flight simulator that is part of MSF. What they have said is that this Spring they will be releasing a small portion of MSF covering Hawai for free and that this portion will be geared towards casual fans interested in flying. The two are not mutually exclusive.Until we have more facts and "official" statements, all the complaining is wasted energy. Not saying that the doom sayers are wong, but just too early to get all worked up. Also, there is no reason why PMDG and MS might not resume negotiations at a later date if MS establishes MSF as a legitimate FS platform worthy of investment by developers such as PMDG. I hope they do work things out, as I love PMDG's add-ons, and I hope we are all wrong about MSF only being a casual game. But I'm not getting worked-up about anything yet.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by Dogstar23