My First Forum “BANNED” ORBX

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

Since when has alienating your loyal customers been a good idea, no matter what you are, developer, publisher, lady on the market selling potatoes..?

[Paul J 349]

Konrad - a genuinely 'normal' business-oriented management team would never have mixed/messed up the pre-paid sale at 30% with a holiday sale at 50% which included those same prepaid products. That same team would never have approved the release of those numerous scathing criticisms and comments which were posted. This December/January debacle was not a considered business-like tactic, or any part of a long-term marketing strategy - it was a knee-jerk reaction to something bad - who knows what, and I'm sure I don't - but the damage caused is going to live long in the minds and pocket-books of hundreds of old customers for a long time.

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Whatever it is, it is often not a successful business strategy to mock and insult customers, throw them out, and then lock the door behind them. That is not a usual sign of any kind of consensus led management team making methodical business decisions.Kind regards,

[Rocky_53 1,581]

I can't help feeling a little sad :(

[Guest]

I can't help feeling a little sad :(

Yes, it's sad... But it's also a passed station as far as I am concerned. No more Orbx for me, simple as that.

All this backlash as a result of one man's ego? Sorry, I just don't see it.

You should have paid more attention during history classes: then you would have known it usually is 'one man's ego' that creates problems. :( (EDIT Do not get me wrong: I am NOT comparing anyone to any person from history...!) Edited February 14, 2012 by J van E

[Sharrow 0]

Ego's (and especially runaway ones) do not just pop up into existence. They are nurtured, fed, validated. History shows this clearly too. I just do not see this being the case here - we all know what an upstanding member of this community said ego has been. And then what? The clock struck midnight on Dec 01st and from the attic scratching noises could be heard...?My guess is that Orbx found itself between a rock and a hard place sometime in the last quarter of 2011. Tough, and no doubt controversial, decisions needed to be taken. And they clearly were. Only time will tell whether they were the right ones. What may today look like crazy business ending moves may in fact turn out to be the very same moves which allow us all to continue enjoying an Orb-esque quality simulated world in the future.Clearly there is genuine voice of discontent on this forum but don't kid yourselves into thinking that most Orbx customers feel like you do. Overall, how many Orbx customers were done in by the pre-pay debacle? A couple of hundred? A thousand? How many more were delighted to have been presented with such a generous sale? A sale, by the way, which Orbx clearly needed much more than keeping their pre-pay customers happy.

[Paul J 349]

Overall, how many Orbx customers were done in by the pre-pay debacle?

Aaah... I see.... so my money's not important then?

[Alan_A 1,650]

@Sharrow -Increasing cash flow might have been the rationale (though clearly all this is just speculation). But customer loyalty isn't something to be taken lightly, especially in a world increasingly dominated by social media. Many more people read about the dust-up than were involved in it, and make purchasing decisions accordingly. Reputation matters, and so do relationships - not in the "internet dating site" sense but in the sense that businesses - the ones I consult with, anyway - see loyalty and affinity as a way of generating a stream of future sales in a tight economy.I do, however, agree with your earlier speculation (if I read it correctly) that ORBX may have decided to de-emphasize retail sales in favor of commercial, professional scenery development. That would make sense from a business standpoint. Consumer relationships are difficult and expensive to maintain - businesses are much easier to work with. So I'd understand and might even sympathize if it turned out that ORBX sees its future in the professional simulation environment. Other developers have made similar moves - Reality-XP seems to have found the professional environment more rewarding, and I sometimes wonder why PMDG doesn't go that route. I'm glad they don't - it's great being a consumer and having access to products like that - but I'd understand it if a developer had one run-in too many on the forums and chose to leave the consumer market behind.Caveat #1 - I'm not saying that a move into the commercial space justifies bad behavior toward consumers. If you've taken people's money, you owe them loyalty and support.Caveat #2 - Just to make it clear, and at the risk of repeating: all of this is speculation on my part. I have no inside knowledge of the business plans or strategies of ANY developer of flightsim products for any platform. I don't work in the industry and don't know any of the players except for conversations on forums like this one. LIke the last of the spirits, I'm just showing what might be, not what is or what's going to be. Make sense?

Edited February 14, 2012 by Alan_A

[ZKOKQ 984]

Clearly there is genuine voice of discontent on this forum but don't kid yourselves into thinking that most Orbx customers feel like you do. Overall, how many Orbx customers were done in by the pre-pay debacle? A couple of hundred? A thousand? How many more were delighted to have been presented with such a generous sale? A sale, by the way, which Orbx clearly needed much more than keeping their pre-pay customers happy.

How can you come to that conclusion ? How many who still reside at the Orbx forum feel comfortable showing there discontent ? Would you have the courage to tell the leader of a dictatorship that he dropped the ball, and by doing so, you are banned.The December debacle was by design, not accidental. I can live without there products, I won't be taken for a fool twice. And I certainly will not fund there P3D project either.

[Paul J 349]

Right on.

[GHarrall 494]

Ego's (and especially runaway ones) do not just pop up into existence. They are nurtured, fed, validated. History shows this clearly too. I just do not see this being the case here - we all know what an upstanding member of this community said ego has been. And then what? The clock struck midnight on Dec 01st and from the attic scratching noises could be heard...?My guess is that Orbx found itself between a rock and a hard place sometime in the last quarter of 2011. Tough, and no doubt controversial, decisions needed to be taken. And they clearly were. Only time will tell whether they were the right ones. What may today look like crazy business ending moves may in fact turn out to be the very same moves which allow us all to continue enjoying an Orb-esque quality simulated world in the future.Clearly there is genuine voice of discontent on this forum but don't kid yourselves into thinking that most Orbx customers feel like you do. Overall, how many Orbx customers were done in by the pre-pay debacle? A couple of hundred? A thousand? How many more were delighted to have been presented with such a generous sale? A sale, by the way, which Orbx clearly needed much more than keeping their pre-pay customers happy.

LOL ......that ego certainly did not 'appear' overnight! There has been plenty of evidence around to show that, going all the way back to around 2005 at least, probably further. Its just more obvious now.In all honesty, I could care less about the mans ego. If the product is good and I find the subject choice intersting I will buy it. What I do resent is not being able to get swift answers (or access) to support for products that I have paid for. This is where the 'ego' has interfered with the business to the detriment of (some) customers.This has been somwehat rectified apparently with the 'support for limited users' forum but lets not pretend that the actions and responses over the December period have been anything less than a PR disaster for ORBX.The 'man' is not bigger than the product. Even Steve Jobs found that out............ Edited February 14, 2012 by GHarrall

[OzWhitey 3,353]

:( sad too, but moving on.Orbx isn't ever likely to develop for flight - from the posts, it doesn't sound like a happy relationship with MS. Pity, could have been a good mix. Whilst I'm excited about P3D, I think the installed user base will be small and I wouldn't want to be a dev pinning my hopes on it for monetary gain.I also think flight DLC will eat into Orbx sales for 'low and slow' flying. Once we all get over the car plane etc the new graphics engine may be hard to pass up.Throw into the mix the alienation of your fan base and you'd have to wonder what the future holds. I think this last part was driven by emotions at the expense of business sense.

[alainneedle1 97]

You made some good point Rob, some already burned their bridges with MS (Flight) by breaking their NDA.As for P3D IMHO it's just FSX tweaked, better tweaks?....maybe......game changer for the money?....not for me.One dev. is ##### at MS because they invested time (time = money) telling MS what to do to make Flight a good sim hoping to get the bigger piece of the pie (or control of the market), like I said in another post, the table was turned on them and they did not like to be told what, where and how to do it, MS's Flight MS's rules....where did I see that before....hummmmm.

Edited February 15, 2012 by alainneedle1

[Ben Cap 89]

One dev. is ##### at MS because they invested time (time = money) telling MS what to do to make Flight a good sim hoping to get the bigger piece of the pie (or control of the market), like I said in another post, the table was turned on them and they did not like to be told what, where and how to do it, MS's Flight MS's rules....where did I see that before....hummmmm.

I honestly think greed is what started all of this nonsense. It has happened for hundreds of years and still happens today.Greed is a factor that has driven the economy into the ground. Edited February 15, 2012 by benorg

[Sharrow 0]

Greed? Sure, it is the way the world works. We do, afterall, live in the age of scarcity. If you're not willing to play the game things get tough real quick.To me at least the direction Orbx is moving is clear enough. They are going commercial at full speed ahead. Think LM's P3D, the Australian military, all in an Orbx-esque world. As an off-the-top-of-my-head example. These types of scenarios are very expensive (lawyers, contract guarantees etc), they are very sensitive, and they are as far away from retail as one can get. Discussions of why on the Orbx forums are to be avoided at all costs. And so they are. If Orbx could tell us the why then they would have done so.At the end of the day the majority of us here will buy the Orbx addons we want in the future. It's hardly like we can get something similar elsewhere, is it? Those into grudges will perhaps not buy an addon they otherwise might have, but they will be a minority.