Or maybe they just like it? I find it rather odd that your only possible conclusion as to why someone would like it, is fanboyism or brain washing. Do you really want Flight to be that bad? Or maybe its just the cool thing to do right now? Like the school yard when someone starts picking on the new kid. Everyone seems to gather around any join in. Its like some carnal pre-historic natural instinct takes over, and anyone who defends the new kid also gets set upon.Somehow it became "cool" to pick on Flight, and anyone defending it is ruthlessly attacked. Its just really sad to see a community reduced to that.

It wasn't my "only possible conclusion" :smile:I said that some people appear to behave this way (with uncritical enthusiasm), in response to a post by Sunhawk7 (#166) who remarked that some of those who criticise Flight are like "impetulent children". The point of my post was to balance what he was saying with a little counter-criticism, whislt at the same time making the point that we do not all fit those stereotypes.My criticism against Flight has nothing to do with what anyone else is saying, or whether what I'm saying is "cool" or not. My criticism has been clear and constant. It's not the quality of the product itself I am criticising. but rather Microsoft's decision to have closed-ended system, which prevents freeware, and hence any personal customisation of the simulator. 3rd party developers are by invite only. That angers me because it goes against all what has made the Flight Simulator series so great, and so much fun over all these years. There was always for me a feeling we were free to develop it, that we could get creative with it if we really want to realise something - be it at an old aircraft that we wanted to bring alive, or a little bit of local secnery, or whatever. This was fun, and it was a large part of the hobby for many. Also, that is the creative crucible from where many developers arose. For example, the Level D 767, thought showing its age a bit now, is still one of the best add-ons you can get. It started out as a freeware add-on by a pilot (Eric Ernst I think his name was) who flew a SAAB, and begain tinkering with FS as a hobby - with a lot of enthusiam and no commercial interest. Project Tupolev is another example - guys motivated by a love of the subject, rather than money. Many of these add-ons are educational - they give an insight into piece of technical history. We'll never see that again, there won't be any projects born out of enthusiam and love of the genre on Flight. It's not a platform in that sense -- unless Microsoft change their business model.I don't mind the gold coins and balloons, flying through hoops or whatever. It's the development restrictions I oppose. Now this restrictions might change in the future, and I sincerely hope they do, but right now that's their current business model and I believe its important to criticise it. If we don't then it will never get changed.I realise not everyone cares about this, and that many just want to be served up everything via DLC like a MacDonalds kiosk - but I'm not one of them, and that doesn't mean that I am an impetulent child, an old timer breathing stale air, or a schoolground bully unaware of his instincts.

Edited January 27, 201214 yr by JasonD210

I always thought if you were on a beta team and under an NDA I nor anyone else shouldn't even know you were a beta tester much less publicly commenting about the product (those were the rules I was always under).

Dillon, unlike previous beta tests of FS9 and FSX, the beta for Flight has no such restriction against letting folks know one is or is not a beta tester.The only restrictions in place are against providing information about the beta, including specific details, screenshots, et cetera.

Dillon, unlike previous beta tests of FS9 and FSX, the beta for Flight has no such restriction against letting folks know one is or is not a beta tester.The only restrictions in place are against providing information about the beta, including specific details, screenshots, et cetera.

Seeing as you have such an inside scoop are you on the beta team?

Edited January 27, 201214 yr by Dillon

Seeing as you have such an inside scoop are you on the beta team?

As it happens, yes I am, further the deponent saith not. :(

they should point out things in the already released material that support their claims.

You know better .Even if they want to come in here and show a few people whats coming with whats in the beta they cant . and by the way get me out of that list too....

Edited January 28, 201214 yr by rtodepart

I STRONGLY feel you should not feel foolish over your optimism - it's based on faith rather than facts, much like some negative opinions expressed in these forums are based on pessimism rather than facts. I would rather my cup be half full - unlike my pint glass which is usually half empty!

Thank you for that. Much appreciated.At this point, my original optimism has been replaced by hope; hope that FLIGHT will end up being a really good flying game encompassing both flight simulation and gaming elements that will expand on the flying experience. This expansion could evolve in many different directions but, with no knowledge at present of what the developers have in mind, it is not possible to form any opinions as to the final outcome.FLIGHT has tremendous potential. It can be whatever one can imagine. Only time will tell whether the developers will ‘step up to the plate’ and produce a product which can be expanded to satisfy the market and also prove to be commercially viable.

At this point, my original optimism has been replaced by hope; hope that FLIGHT will end up being a really good flying game encompassing both flight simulation and gaming elements that will expand on the flying experience. This expansion could evolve in many different directions but, with no knowledge at present of what the developers have in mind, it is not possible to form any opinions as to the final outcome.FLIGHT has tremendous potential. It can be whatever one can imagine. Only time will tell whether the developers will ‘step up to the plate’ and produce a product which can be expanded to satisfy the market and also prove to be commercially viable.

I believe we're thinking along the same lines...MSFlight does have tremendous potential. I am also coming to understand how the apparent lack of a SDK - and I say "apparent" because we truly DON'T know what might be happening behind the scenes, or who's keeping quiet - both worries and upsets a good portion of the diehard FS community. But, as has been previously stated, there are still FS9 and FSX to fall back on - the release of MSFlight will not make them go away.For me, MSFlight represents a FREE download that seems to incorporate (from the limited research I've been able to accomplish) a great core flight model, good looking scenery, and multiple options for my experience. I can expand on it by purchasing the planes I truly want to experience and other regions to fly them in. It seems to be set up so if I have someone with zero actual or simulated flying experience visit, I can adjust the setting so they can experience what so thrills me about this activity. And when they've left, adjust it back to how I like to simulate my experience.All in all, I'm glad that Microsoft is doing SOMETHING with the flight simulation/game niche...I'm looking forward to giving it a try. The scenery at Hilo looks great - when we were flying Marines between Kaneohe and there, found a great little restaraunt just outside the gate that had INCREDIBLE breakfasts - made me hungry watching the video! That, to me, is my "simulation escape" - to have a release from whatever might be going on, and "lose myself in the moment" - and I believe MSFlight will provide that for me.

Edited January 28, 201214 yr by newthog

As it happens, yes I am, further the deponent saith not. :(

Awesome, as usual I can put more weight on what you say because your officially in the loop. Needless to say I'm pretty sure you feel like others on the beta team (who haven't already left in disgust) that Flight is the best thing since sliced bread and surely better than both FSX and FS9 combined (just giving you a hard time)... ^_^I'd love to get your real scoop on things as I remember your optimism during the FSX beta.

Edited January 28, 201214 yr by Dillon

Awesome, as usual I can put more weight on what you say because your officially in the loop.

Exactly!

Awesome, as usual I can put more weight on what you say because your officially in the loop. <snipped for brevity>I'd love to get your real scoop on things as I remember your optimism during the FSX beta.

Dillon, as was the case during the FSX beta, pay close attention to what I don't say, since what I can say cannot be actual facts... :(

I'm still optimistic about Flight...I have heard enough slips...er...innuendos about Flight's core feature set from people who are probably beta testers in the know, but after telling you, would have to kill you, and many of whom are long time simmers at that, that there is more to Flight than its first impression. Run on sentence of the year.I hope so, because as I fly my newly acquired RV-7 through PNW in FSX I'm already blown away...so I can't imagine the gap getting any narrower between FSX and say:This:

Edited January 28, 201214 yr by gtrbarbarian

No sir, we are not there yet, likely never will be, but darn close!Love that old song: Gemmi some a-lovin, every day!Kind regards,

Thanks Barbarian!My "mental image" when I hear those songs has now been changed for the better!

I'm still optimistic about Flight...I have heard enough slips...er...innuendos about Flight's core feature set from people who are probably beta testers in the know, but after telling you, would have to kill you, and many of whom are long time simmers at that, that there is more to Flight than its first impression. Run on sentence of the year.I hope so, because as I fly my newly acquired RV-7 through PNW in FSX I'm already blown away...so I can't imagine the gap getting any narrower between FSX and say:This:

thats a hell of a good video , im gona open another beer and watch again :( ...

Unless there was a way to port my addons over to Flight (eg. an SDK released), I don't see myself buying it.