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trevorbee

Flight will be good

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I would guess that for every 1000 copies a successful flight sim sells, a successful game will sell one million copies.
Now seriously, our community isn't THAT small. haha

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Now seriously, our community isn't THAT small. haha
He didn't say that... :( He said the flight sim market is something like 0,1% of the game market.

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Ok, so Skyrim which is very successful game and fastest selling game in Steam has sold about 10 million copies by last december. I doubt that our community has. I doubt that our Flight Sim community has only 10 000 members.FSX surely sold more than just 10 000, actually it has sold at least one million, I could not find exact numbers by quick googling...

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Ok, so Skyrim which is very successful game and fastest selling game in Steam has sold about 10 million copies by last december. I doubt that our community has. I doubt that our Flight Sim community has only 10 000 members.FSX surely sold more than just 10 000, actually it has sold at least one million, I could not find exact numbers by quick googling...
FSX sold more then a million indeed, but that doesn't mean our community is that big. Most FSX buyers installed the game, played it for a while and moved on to another game. Only a small percentage stuck to FSX and started buying addons. I don't know if that would be 0,1% (I just explained nateanderson's post to benorg, who misunderstood him) but it won't be much... Afaik Avsim has some 4000 members...? EDIT Sorry, my bad: the members page has 4000 pages :( with 20 members each, so that's about 80000 members. Impressive. Don't know how active they all are though. Would be nice to know how big our community really is...!

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Well, you guys have succeeded in driving away this enthusiast, because I didn't come here to fight or to to be abused. I'm sick of all the negativity and hate here. I hope you're all happy.
Hi ArwenI understand your hurt but hope that you will reconsider and keep posting. I believe that you were making a very valuable contribution to this forum.Sincerelytrevorbee

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FSX sold more then a million indeed, but that doesn't mean our community is that big. Most FSX buyers installed the game, played it for a while and moved on to another game. Only a small percentage stuck to FSX and started buying addons. I don't know if that would be 0,1% (I just explained nateanderson's post to benorg, who misunderstood him) but it won't be much... Afaik Avsim has some 4000 members...? EDIT Sorry, my bad: the members page has 4000 pages :( with 20 members each, so that's about 80000 members. Impressive. Don't know how active they all are though. Would be nice to know how big our community really is...!
Yeah thats true, if even half of that mega_shok.gif 000 is active its quite nice sized community especially as probably big part of it uses software 6 to 8 years old.Anyway I believe that majority of people who download Flight will never really buy any addons for it... Most of people I know who would like to fly around and collect coins do not really have access to credit card to buy anything.Lold I typed some part of sentence twice in my last post... Probably because I feel like I should sleep 24/7 because of winter.

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Now I am not so sure.For several weeks I have felt very optimistic about FLIGHT. Suddenly, that has all changed. Now I feel pessimistic and want to walk away from it. There are better things to do than speculate about whether or not it will do this or do that. Hey, that is up to the developer to tell us - when they are good and ready. In the meantime, I want to go way and do something else.I have FS9 (I gave FSX a miss as the demo would not play on the machine I had at the time). FS9 remains extremely good value for money and, with the add-ons which I have (mostly free-ware) will probably be playable for ever. Who needs FLIGHT unless it turns out to be a major step forward?Well, as it stands, I do not think that MS has provided any convincing confirmation that FLIGHT will be a major step forward – just a different and very limited approach that will play well on today’s hardware. But hey, FS9 and I gather FSX play very well on today’s hardware.So, up to you Microsoft. Either offer me convincing evidence that FLIGHT will be worth my while or I am out of here.The demo will be free and so I will try it out but the DLC will cost me and, unless it is very, very good, I will be quite content with my FS9. Sorry.

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The demo will be free and so I will try it out but the DLC will cost me and, unless it is very, very good, I will be quite content with my FS9. Sorry.
What will be released is not a "demo." It is the real program which will contain whatever functionality MS decides to include at that time. Some DLC will likely be free rewards for successful completion of targeted goals, other will be made available for an as yet unannounced price.

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Hi ArwenI understand your hurt but hope that you will reconsider and keep posting. I believe that you were making a very valuable contribution to this forum.Sincerelytrevorbee
I'm going to "throw my hat in the ring" with trevor - Arwen (unless I've missed a lot of posts) seems to always try to have a positive attitude. If she's been driven away by the attitudes here, I can only imagine how a "noobie" must feel - they catch a promo vid of Flight, are interested, google MS Flight, exhaust the somewhat limited website, and google for forums. Unfortunately this forum, from what I've seen, is about the kindest of the bunch...there seems to be a lot of vitriolic attitudes, misguided feelings of entitlement, and elitism from the the forum posts I've seen...luckily with a few exceptions.We...as flight sim enthusiasts, gamers, or casual players...are in a very small niche of the simulation/gaming world. I feel we should be welcoming newcomers to the fold, embracing anything that might draw more attention to our activities, and being thankful that we DO have choices as to how we virtually aviate.It wasn't very long ago that Microsoft closed the studios that created their flight sims - I, for one, am glad it that it wasn't permanent. Yes, they may just be "in it for the money", but doesn't that benefit us? Doesn't bringing new members into our circle bode well for us - and for other companies? Isn't it the initial spark of interest that caused many of us to become addicted to this form of relaxation? Doesn't a greater customer base for this small part of the industry mean more demand for future products - not just in this venue, but by other manufacturers as well?I apologize for getting on my soapbox - but at times I find it hard to stand idly by without expressing my viewpoint. There are many who will disagree, and a few that will agree with some part of what I'm saying. I don't claim to be more than an idle bystander with an interest in MS Flight - if you've read this far, thanks for hearing me out!

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I'm going to "throw my hat in the ring" with trevor - Arwen (unless I've missed a lot of posts) seems to always try to have a positive attitude. If she's been driven away by the attitudes here, I can only imagine how a "noobie" must feel - they catch a promo vid of Flight, are interested, google MS Flight, exhaust the somewhat limited website, and google for forums. Unfortunately this forum, from what I've seen, is about the kindest of the bunch...there seems to be a lot of vitriolic attitudes, misguided feelings of entitlement, and elitism from the the forum posts I've seen...luckily with a few exceptions.We...as flight sim enthusiasts, gamers, or casual players...are in a very small niche of the simulation/gaming world. I feel we should be welcoming newcomers to the fold, embracing anything that might draw more attention to our activities, and being thankful that we DO have choices as to how we virtually aviate.It wasn't very long ago that Microsoft closed the studios that created their flight sims - I, for one, am glad it that it wasn't permanent. Yes, they may just be "in it for the money", but doesn't that benefit us? Doesn't bringing new members into our circle bode well for us - and for other companies? Isn't it the initial spark of interest that caused many of us to become addicted to this form of relaxation? Doesn't a greater customer base for this small part of the industry mean more demand for future products - not just in this venue, but by other manufacturers as well?I apologize for getting on my soapbox - but at times I find it hard to stand idly by without expressing my viewpoint. There are many who will disagree, and a few that will agree with some part of what I'm saying. I don't claim to be more than an idle bystander with an interest in MS Flight - if you've read this far, thanks for hearing me out!
Welcome to AVSIM and thank you for your well thought out and well delivered points. I happen to agree with you 100% in everything you just stated.Kind regards,

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To me, the following was hostile,m and very rude:Yeah, I'm the one at fault, for trying to stand up for a simulator that I'm looking forward to. I'm the on "stoking the flames," and all the Flight an Microsoft hate posts in this forum are innocent.I've done NOTHING wrong and have NOT broken any NDA. So get of my case!My only crime is showing some enthusiasm for Flight (ONLY in the Flight forum), and standing up to all the negativity and false information about Flight.

This motto of AVSIM is: "Where Flight Simulation Enthusiasts Gather from Around the World!"

Yet many of you here see nothing wrong with attacking a new sim product (in its own forum), just because you are a fan of a different product.

Perhaps the motto should be changed to:

"Where Flight Simulation Enthusiasts Gather from Around the World, to Fight over which Simulator is the Best One!"

Well, you guys have succeeded in driving away this enthusiast, because I didn't come here to fight or to to be abused. I'm sick of all the negativity and hate here. I hope you're all happy.

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

You put yourself in a position that you wouldn't had you been around this community for the last 20+ years. Your taking personal anger directed at a company that has played games with loyal customers (and internal Microsoft staff) that have fought hard to make this franchise very special over the years. Now things have went off the deep end. The trouble with being new is you haven't had the years of ups and downs with the Flight Simulator franchise. Yes you can say it's a game but this software has been responsible for more pilots in the last 20 years than any other. The dream of Bruce Artwick has been overshadowed by corporate greed. The firing of Aces and the development of Flight has officially tipped the scale in favor of those in Microsoft who's opposed Flight Simulator for years. It's like the Disney company without Walt. Disney would be a whole different company if Walt was still alive. With Bill Gates gone more than a few things have changed around Redmond... The creation of Flight Simulator was intended to be a PC based simulation of Flight not a game. X-Plane not being under the big corporate umbrella stuck with it's roots in how it marketed the sim but Microsoft strayed from that all the while keeping FS a simulation in it's truest form (they even took out the WWII module that was present in earlier versions like FS 4.0). The reason X-Plane is certified by the FAA yet it's inferior on many levels to FSX is because it was marketed for what it is. Microsoft has been in an identity crisis with Flight Simulator for years yet put millions into making it the top PC simulation of the civilian flight experience money can buy. The marketing suites must have been told one thing while Aces developed away with impunity in the direction of a true simulation... It was so good that many thought back in 2001 Flight Simulator helped the terrorist with training. Arwen being new you wouldn't know that even then suites at Microsoft wanted a Flight type of experience but someone powerful in the company would have non of that. FS2k2 was put on hold and almost didn't get released because of fear. This is the history I'm talking about that you may not have. I heard no knee-jerk reaction coming towards X-Plane after 9/11 showing which sim was the superior product even then yet today it has FAA certification. For years when news stations or anyone for that matter recreated a crash more times than not they use Flight Simulator as the platform to show what happened. All in all God only knows why Microsoft didn't just market Flight Simulator as a simulation like Lockheed is doing with Prepar3D today (a version of FSX for those that don't know). It certainly would have made since if companies Lockheed, Boeing, Cessna, and flight schools from around the world put their stamp of approval on the product for so many years.So I can see you getting offended and not understanding. New people never would or could understand. They see this one product and say, "What's all the fuss about it's only a game". If you've been around since 1986 you'd see the labor of love Aces and freeware/payware developers have put in it over the years. You'd empathize on how hard it is to learn a whole new way of doing things with each new version of FS but people keep going because it's a labor of love. You'd know or read about the pains of building planes in Flight Shop and GMAX or the extensive research it takes to bring detailed aircraft and airports to the virtual screen. This is where the anger comes from... I've used FS since 1986 you've most likely only been around since 2006 if that long and one version of FS (FSX one of the most problematic versions ever released next to FS2000). You jump on the side of a company that wants to shut this history down, control freedom of development, rewind the advancement that took years to develop (simulating the whole world), and expect to get a warm dialog from people. Your on the wrong side with this one and you shouldn't take it personal. Respect the history that's lasted for 20+ years and quit looking at it in the context of black and white only. The anger is not at you personally because you don't have the history many of us have but many of your comments about Flight is like a slap in the face to the vision of people like Bruce Artwick, the Aces team that brought us the whole world on one disc (which ended up being FS9 and FSX), the many freeware/payware developers who've contributed over the years, and many of the long standing fans of the franchise.

PREPAR3D v4/FS9.75

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finally!!!!someone posts the smackdaddy of All posts concerning Flight, imho. great post Dillon.MS's greed is what killed Flight Simulator - as Dillon has already mentioned. nothing personal against Arwen. hopefully, she will be back soon.MS is the one who should be ashamed of themselves.happy flyin, FM

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I find it funny how all leaked screenshots and videos are by someone who runs it with low/medium settings and leaves the HUD display at the top of the screen...making it look bad/like a game.


Brandon Filer

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