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trevorbee

Flight will be good

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I am optimistic about ‘Flight’.I think that it has the potential to take everything to do with armchair flying to a totally new level. Both as a game, which can have various levels of complexity, and as a simulation which also can have various levels of complexity. It seems to me that when there is the opportunity to make revenue by expanding a core product in any direction required by the user base then the possibilities are endless.Having said that, I am totally sympathetic to everyone who has expressed disappointment that there will not be a FS11. However, it is also not too hard to understand that the ‘Flight’ marketing model has the potential to provide Microsoft with a very lucrative revenue stream, over a number of years, rather than a one-off sale. But, there again, I am also totally bemused by their marketing strategy. It appears to be either totally inept or too smart by half.I do not have the Beta version and my only information regarding ‘Flight’ is what Microsoft has published on the web site. But common sense says that a game involving flying through hoops in Hawaii will only have limited appeal, and a very short life span. I think that Microsoft is a bit smarter than that.Am i in cloud cookoo land or what?

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No. Flight might be great, bus as you say, it's not going to be FS11 - which is what many fans want. To me it's not all about the flying. I like to be entertained and I welcome missions and hoepfully career modes.But what I don't want is having to fly in Hawaii or whatever other regions Microsoft develops. I want to fly from my home airport, and coming from a remote area in the world, freeware has always been the only way to reproduce that region. The greatest thing about FS was the ability to travel anywhere in the world and feel like you had been there. The environmentally friendly way to travel!

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potential to provide Microsoft with a very lucrative revenue stream
I am not so certain that Flight will accomplish that. Most users-- the ones MS is targeting, are the casual players. Most of them will just have a passing interest in aviation, so what is the incentive to buy and download a Citabria or Cub for example when they have a Stearman? People who are not aviation fanatics could care less between the difference of an Airbus or Boeing. They categorize airplanes as "Jets" or "old propeller planes". Plus casual players are very finicky and move from game to game quickly. Look at what happened to so many of the Facebook games. People were tired of the microtransactions, as well as social aspects of the game, so titles that were super successful like Farmville have taken a membership hit. DLC can be successful, but only for the most compelling of games-- games like Fallout, Skyrim, Call of Duty or Battlefield 3-- not an arcade flight game.

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I still have hope for Flight...my main thing is frame rates...I hope Flight fixes this, as usually FSX runs great but when I go to someplace super intensive my frame rates plummet. Last night I was flying around Paris at dawn with track-ir, ase 2012 and the Carenado grand caravan....and I got down to 6 fps :( All of the city lights and buildings and clouds and sky colors...a beautiful slide show it was! :(

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Flight is not JUST for casual gamers.Trust me on this: there's more to Flight than what has been promoted (or leaked) so far. Some of the "more" is part of the core sim (the free part), but most (and this is a guess on my part) will come later as DLC.Flight will not initially be a replacement for FSX, and it may never get to that point. But it does certainly have the potential. This will all (in my opinion again) depend on how well it does .... as in, how well the DLC sells. If Flight's DLC does not sell, Flight will not last long, as MS isn't going to keep developing it for free. But if the DLC takes off, then there's a ton of potential, and I see no reason why it cannot effectively replace FSX.

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I look forward for MS FLIGHT as well. As a long time simmer I have always defended the idea of a flight simulation with limited add-on aircraft and scenery areas provided they're developed with accuracy (as far as possible) in mind. I have long uninstalled MSFSX, from time to time I try xplane, flight gear, and very recently I became rather interested in Aerofly FS (it reminded me of when Flight-Unlimited was released in 1995).In RL I fly gliders, so, whenever these days I use a sim it is Condorsoaring. I look forward for PSX (Aerowinx), but, from the media already available for FLIGHT I really believe it will certainly look great. I believe the platform behind FLIGHT will be derived from ESP, which is after all a sound basis for good work.I'd rather prefer to have just a few airplanes to fly, and scenery areas, with good detail, smooth for even not up-to-date machines, than going through the pain of tweaking MSFS, buying hundreds of add-ons and having to manage their install, compatibility, etc...I look forward for MS FLIGHT!!!

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Most users-- the ones MS is targeting, are the casual players. Most of them will just have a passing interest in aviation, so what is the incentive to buy and download a Citabria or Cub for example when they have a Stearman?
I would think that the target market is new users, who are interested in aviation.. just like we were when wefirst started with FS1, or 98, or 2002 or whatever..

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I don't know whether I really passed through the first four stages (denial, anger/resentment, bargaining, depression), but I'm definitely into an acceptance that Flight will have a following of its own.Lots of eye candy and some plausible reality. The new folks will be excited (why not!), while some of the flight sim elders will lament (but will follow with great interest its success or failure). I'm going to give it a try.[footnote - I guess there was never any real bargaining stage with MS. :( ]

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I would think that the target market is new users, who are interested in aviation.. just like we were when wefirst started with FS1, or 98, or 2002 or whatever..
You have a good point there. I never thought of that one...

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I have no doubt Flight will be great, especially for new sim pilots. And after a dozen or two add-ons at $40 to $50 each, it may actually approach FSX out-of-the-box functionality.After reading about Flight's piece-meal Microsoft Live sales approach, I decided to buy the increasingly reliable and functional X-Plane 10. For the ONE-TIME price of $79 I got the full functionality of FSX (i.e. world-wide scenery, thousands of airports, mutliple default planes, full support of third party developers) with the added capabilities of state-of-the-art graphics (the lighting is fantastic) and the ability to fully utilize multi-core CPUs. And I can buy additional planes, scenery, etc direct from the rapidly growing list of X-plane developers without paying Microsoft's huge markup that I'm sure they'll add to everything sold through their Flight store.

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after a dozen or two add-ons at $40 to $50 each, it may actually approach FSX out-of-the-box functionality.
Wow, I had no idea Flight was going to be priced at $1,200 - that's great info - thank you for sharing, I'll have to take a look at X10. . .[sarcasm off]

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I have no doubt Flight will be great, especially for new sim pilots. And after a dozen or two add-ons at $40 to $50 each, it may actually approach FSX out-of-the-box functionality.
We don't know how much Flight's DLC will cost, or all that they will cover yet ... so where are you coming up with those amounts?I have X-Plane 9 and I tried the X-Plane 10 demo, and was quite disappointed with it's "plausible world, which wasn't all the plausible to me (with bridges to nowhere, and repeating buildings, grass textures on roadways, and 2D trees), in time it might be worth the upgrade, once the airport get some buildings and NYC looks different from LA (building wise). It was released way too early in my opinion. And I have FSX, with a bunch of addons.The very first flightsim that I'm going to install on my new PC will be Flight.

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We don't know how much Flight's DLC will cost, or all that they will cover yet ... so where are you coming up with those amounts?
If Manhattan X scenery for FS9 sells for $30 today, do you think Flight will sell the state of New York scenery for less than $40??? If PMDG sells their 737 NGX for $70, do you see Microsoft selling their commercial jets for less than that? What do you think Microsoft will charge for the ATC add-on?I have no doubt that Microsoft executives have looked at what add-ons are selling for today for FS9/FSX and adding MANY dollars to that for the "superior" Flight versions. Why do you think they're giving away Flight for FREE????? I've bought many expensive things that were "FREE" up front. But there was always somebody behind the scenes that had already figured out how to get my money at the next stage of the product.

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Here's the dichotomy...Microsoft has stated to it's invited insiders that it expected a poor reaction, and it has stated an intent to provide a game for those with lower hardware resources, and a mouse. That's a new group.Microsoft has a loyal more sophisticated customer base, who develop freeware for the good of the hobby, and who spend a lot of money on their's (MS) and other third party products..Both are money making pools of people. Why not support both in the production of Flight for beginners and FX11 for the existing base and others that grow into the genuine big boy. Face it, there will never be an MS big boy again without the incorportation of an open architechure, and third party people including freeware developers.Frankly, I am surprised at website providers who also depended on third party people for a good part of their income, and freeware developers for hit count, embracing this complete cut-off like they apparently have. I personally would be shuttling this off to a new Game forum area along with the rest of the lesser major categories, while keeping the complete simulators in the Flight Simulation area.... and together. Sometimes it's time to move on when slapped in the face ! Let the games earn the right to get into the main stream Flight Simulator area if that's what the developers want to make. Bob

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Larry, I have no idea what MS will charge for Flight's DLC. And neither does anyone else. Any prices are now nothing more than speculation. And that was my main point.My other point was, based on my own personal experience (not on idle speculation, nor from what I have heard, nor read), Flight will be the first flightsim I will install on my new PC. Depending on the availability and pricing of its DLC, it might be the only flightsim I install for quite some time.

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If Manhattan X scenery for FS9 sells for $30 today, do you think Flight will sell the state of New York scenery for less than $40??? If PMDG sells their 737 NGX for $70, do you see Microsoft selling their commercial jets for less than that? What do you think Microsoft will charge for the ATC add-on?
DLC will be priced correctly - at a level that attempts to maximize revenues. That means, not too high and not too low such that sales x price = the most money. Your original post said, almost factually, the DLC pricing would be such that we would have to pay $480 to $1200 just for Flight to approach the content in [bone stock] FSX. You may be right - if those prices fit the 'maximize revenue' formula, then that's what it will be. Common sense tells me otherwise. I don't think at those prices MS will maximize it's revenue. I think they will have to be lower.

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Maybe they will sell a "lifetime" membership to put a cap on the process. That might essentially give the FS world an FS11 while taking in a ton of money right up front. I'd be there right away with my credit card just like I did with FSGenesis. And it might even head me off from taking the direction I am about to take with a new overclocked Ivy bridge machine, and a return to FSX. They've got 'til April 8th on that one but I am not holding my breath.I think people here, while opimistic, forget that it took many years for third party people to get to the level of sophistication that they are at now in FSX. Does anyone seriously think a bloated and slow to move corporate bureaucracy is going to not take even much longer. They usually barely beat the government at what they do. I may not live that long.Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot. They'll form some committees and focus groups and it will be much quicker. Bob

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Flight has the capability of being as easy, or as difficult as you want it to be. I believe it will engage many more entry level players than possible with an FSXI. Whether that will translate into successful DLC sales depends on how MS sets the pricing and content.

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it took many years for third party people to get to the level of sophistication they are at now in FSX.
True, but I don't think MS completely trashed the FSX interface technology. When Flight is opened up to 3PDs, they will have to do some work to convert their existing FSX product, but they won't have to reinvent it.

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Apparently some folks don't understand the meaning of "micro-transactions" at all...MS Flight will use the system they already have in place for the X-Box 360, where DLC is priced in "Microsoft Points." Here is a handy converter for determining the actual currency costs for any given number of "Microsoft Points."http://www.360plex.c...s_converter.php

The cost in Dollars for 500 Microsoft Points is: $6.25
Here is another converter site. Currently MPs are 80/$1.00http://www.tmeyer.de...sconverter.htmlI wonder now though if cards currently available from retail outlets (such as WalMart) or online (Amazon) will be honored for Flight as they are now for X-Box 360? If so, those are often discounted:http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/B000B9RI141600 points for $18.99 (discounted from $20)

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I can't wait for flight.I've got bored/fed up with flight sim in general over the last few years mainly because I spend more time deciding on the flight I want to do than actually flying there. (which plane, which paint, which airports, which scenery) In fact most of the time I'd decide all of that after about 2 hours and then think 'oh I can't be bothered.'I've spent a few quid on addons also in those few years in the vain belief that it will get me back into it including the NGX. I've flown that twice and although it's a nice plane and replicates the aircraft well, I really have no need for that type of realism when I think about it.I hope Flight will bring me back to the basics, and like in real life, will only let me fly where I'm capable of flying and in a aircraft I am capable of flying. Then when I've achieved certain goals I will be allowed to fly bigger aircraft and fly further. That will give this 'game' a purpose and make it more interesting for me.

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MS Flight will use the system they already have in place for the X-Box 360, where DLC is priced in "Microsoft Points."
My Flight Simulation activities do NOT involve Microsoft Points, the XBox 360, or a "Gamertag" to identify me to XBox Live. I don't even own an XBox, although I saw in the videos from CES that the XBox controller works well with Flight.Of course, I'm over 30, so I realize I'm not in the typical XBox Live demographic. Maybe somebody can explain to me again how Flight is a serious simulation and not a game.

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My Flight Simulation activities do NOT involve Microsoft Points, the XBox 360, or a "Gamertag" to identify me to XBox Live. I don't even own an XBox, although I saw in the videos from CES that the XBox controller works well with Flight.Of course, I'm over 30, so I realize I'm not in the typical XBox Live demographic. Maybe somebody can explain to me again how Flight is a serious simulation and not a game.
Actually the average gamer is in their late 30's and you just sound like you're being deliberately difficult. Gamertag so what, it's no different to any other account you have, like your avsim username. Instead of calling them MS points call them dollars or whatever currency you desire. You can go ahead and play FSX with an Xbox controller if you want. Why throw a tantrum over such trivial things?

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