Sorry guys (and Mods), but I gotta agree with BlueRidgeDX. Especially after reading Tom's "rules" about how this forum would be Moderated to prevent it turning into what it did before. Basically Tom said, "No personal attacks whatsoever will be tolerated".The Rules of Debate are quite clear. You can attack another person's IDEA, STANCE, POSITION, OPINIONS, etc. But you can NOT attack the person PERSONALLY, regardless of how you may feel about them.Calling somebody a "knucklehead" is a direct attack against the PERSON, and unless Tom is a hyprocrite, violates his own guidance for how this forum will be Moderated.When a Moderator does it, it's even more questionable."With all due respect for my distinguished collegue from the State of California, your OPINIONS are full of cr*p!"THAT'S the way you do it.Respectfully submitted.

+1 I am glad I am not the only one intimidated by the moderators about talking about my dislike of Flight.

Edited March 2, 201214 yr by frankla

Without a doubt, the Avsim forum has lost it's sense of openness. Perhaps that's because some people who were in here before were being TOO negative. I wasn't here, so I don't know, but I do know how juvenile posters can be, so it wouldn't surprise me at all. However, I am one of those here who has now noticed that the slightest mention of a flaw in Flight! will draw moderators in droves to intimidate and squelch any dissent. It was never that way many years ago. We used to have some very open debates and it almost seemed encouraged. I remember getting into some spirited, and CIVIL debates with a guy named LAdamson in here MANY years ago (around the introduction of Fly!, to give you an idea of how long ago).There are other flight sims out there, one of which is FREE, including all "add-ons". It is also sometimes mentioned by the great team here at Avsim, but I've learned not to mention it in the Flight! forum, even when trying to compare it to Flight!, which is totally legit, or the post will be deleted. I will just say to all of you (I should say "us") who don't think Flight! is the greatest example of what can be achieved in a "sim" to join me in quietly exiting the forums forever.Moderators - all of you. Go ahead and keep deleting posts here, even when they are not obscene or juvenile, and even when they do not direct attacks at anyone. Doing so is a true sign of cowardice on the part of Avsim, and that's VERY disappointing. But speaking for myself, I don't really care. The heavy-handedness being displayed in here is transparent and has killed the interest I had in this forum. Microsoft killed my interest in Flight!, and I've been fair. The review mentioned at the beginning of this thread was accurate for MANY of us. Certainly not for even ONE moderator here. So be it.Goodbye, Avsim.

Well said, sir. If you've lost interest in being condemned for your love of the hobby, head over to the PMDG forum. You'll find good company there. Tom Allensworth et al. will no doubt appreciate it, though I'm sure they will miss having posts to delete, threads to rename and users to shun.

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by Lawyer+Pilot

I completely agree with the last number of posters it is surprising seeing so much double standards in action.

I would not call anyone a "knucklehead," but that is just me.I have no problem with a negative review on Flight. I have posted my own reviews on a number of games that were less than flattering.But . . . and this is a rather large but. If you're going to be negative, you should at least tell the truth (fully) and not exaggerate (just to make your point). Here is an excerpt from this review, to illustrate my point"

"Next I went into the realism settings and changed everything to full-on realistic. This slightly improved the handling and physics in the simulation, but it still wasn’t right. In a 29-knot direct crosswind, I could land without having to crab or slip or do much of anything at all. On the takeoff roll, there was almost zero effect from torque or the propeller’s spiraling slipstream."

I been using Flight since Jan 5th, and have logged thousands of virtual miles in it. There is no way that you are going to land Flight's Icon in a 29 knot cross-wind, without crabbing or slipping, with all the assists off, and not end up in a heap . . . unless you are "flying" in mouse-mode (which is also simplified flight mode). If the author of that review was using a joystick, then either he was outright lying, or he did not actually have all the assists disabled. If he was flying with a mouse, then he was being less than honest in leaving that part out.

I completely agree with the last number of posters it is surprising seeing so much double standards in action.

It's not really. The major purpose of this forum is to welcome new comers to Flight, and to provide a friendly environment to assist them with any help they may need.That's more than just a bit difficult to accomplish when a newcomer's question gets buried by an avalanche of threads that quickly force their question down to page 3 before they've even come back to see if anyone has answered them.It's likewise difficult for anyone coming for the first time to feel welcome when most of what they see are alleged adults slinging strident words back and forth. Seriously. It's embarrasing.

I am glad you recognise that is embarrasing and I hope you will be acting accordingly. Time for me to leave for saner pastures. Namely pmdg site best of luck

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by slainte13

I am glad you recognise that is embarrasing and I hope you will be acting accordingly. Time for me to leave for saner pastures. Namely pmdg site best of luck

How "sane" would PMDG forum be if it was invaded by folks who sought to do nothing more than stir up controversy? I think Robert et alia would be quite busy with the delete/purge/ban buttons themselves. Just saying...

How "sane" would PMDG forum be if it was invaded by folks who sought to do nothing more than stir up controversy? I think Robert et alia would be quite busy with the delete/purge/ban buttons themselves. Just saying...

If PMDG had decided to release a mediocre product, I guarantee you people would have flogged it on the forum. But, PMDG's execution, as with its other products, is spot on--uncompromised quality.

There will be NO "Hobby Groping" in this forum. Sorry, couldn't resist.RB

If PMDG had decided to release a mediocre product, I guarantee you people would have flogged it on the forum. But, PMDG's execution, as with its other products, is spot on--uncompromised quality.

I cannot help but feel that you are being deliberately obtuse, by very carefully not acknowledging the actual point I was making...

I find this thread very strange. I am a mod and have posted lots of negatives about Flight (along with lots of positives).In fact I agree with the reviewer in some areas and already mentioned them days ago.I see nothing inconsistent-delivery, attacks, personal attacks are just not allowed at avsim-whether it be against other members or an organization.I agree with arwin that the reviewer was incorrect about crabbing for crosswinds-but I have made the same observations that the planes are too stable, the weather a step back, and that no right rudder on the rv is needed for takeoff, climb, nose up attitudes, and rolling into a 45 bank the ball stays mostly in the center with no rudder input. Also there is a lack of momentum and intertia, the 3 axis's are too fast and sensitive. They are very smooth but that doesn't make a fm. Are they better than default fsx-probably..I have seen other members of the Avsim team also make some negative remarks. Is it possible that because it seems the after release comments are mostly positives that some feel it necessary to turn against Avsim in their own personal agnst?

Geoff, it brings to mind back when I was a child and stomped off to my room, slammed the door and fumed......and kept getting more and more angry, moment by moment......all because everyone else was having fun without me! They never even noticed that I'd left the room! How dare them have fun! :LMAO:

Well I have to admit Flight is a lot of fun...heaven forbid we should ever have that!

Well I have to admit Flight is a lot of fun...heaven forbid we should ever have that!

Honestly Geoff, I haven't had as much fun as I've had with Flight for years. The "joy" is back in just relaxing and enjoying the freedom of just......flying. :Peace:

Honestly Geoff, I haven't had as much fun as I've had with Flight for years. The "joy" is back in just relaxing and enjoying the freedom of just......flying. :Peace:

FUN?!? I'm stressed out to the max with sweaty palms trying to get these darned chickens delivered on time...