Word Not Allowed,You should try some of the later landing challenges. It would take a very proficient 10yr old to nail them.

Nonono, don't get me wrong please. I didn't say Flight is easy. It only seems very limiting.I'm just irritated that you have virtually no customization at all.This is where it comes down to being simple for me. Not flying skills. Everyone took that one so personally, while sou shouldn't have had... :-) Typing all this from iPhone is a real challenge...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm new to flight sims/games but a longtime pc gamer. 62 yrs old btw.I like Flight. I bought the expanded islands pack and the Maule.This is the first flight "game" I've tried and have really gotten involved in.I was thinking of buying MS Flight sim and add ons etc if I continue to enjoy this like I am.You "hardcore flight sim" guys sound just like the "leet" gamers who hammer on "newbies" for their lack of sophistication in first person shooter games.Get over yourselves. MS has opened the door for new flight afficianados, not closed it on you vets.

Well I see it a bit more balanced, there are floating a lot of good folks around here at AVSIM.We old timers have contributed a lot to the hobby thousands of hours of our free time in knowledge / and add onsin the library and that made AVSIM a great place to stay and made the franchise a success ;-)

My intent was not to dismiss the efforts of the "old timers" here. Not at all! I truly appreciate what they have added to this hobby. And most of the "old timers" are not the ones that are acting all superior, when it comes to flightsims.Sorry, my intent was to point out why we all need to be a bit more open-minded, and not polarize ourselves into "hard-core" and "casual" simmers. I'm afraid that I didn't do a very good job of expressing myself (again).

Just to make one thing clear. I was not trying to generalize the different groups. It was just an observation I made based on the post's. Only a fringe minority post things on forums. Maybe about .01% of Flights total user base, so my observations are only of that small group. In that small group, they are the loudest and most passionate group. But it seems like there are 3 dominate groups in the forums right now. #1, hard core simmers who DONT like Flight (some do, not all dont)#2, real life pilots who fly sims that DO like Flight (again, not all like it)#3, new users who DO like Flight (If you dont like it, you typically dont register to a forum to say so)Cant these 3 groups get along?

Im one of the newbies to flight sims. Flight got me into it, free at first to see if I like it, If I don't so be it, I did and bought the hawaii pack. I read several post from newbies asking basic questions and got a response of "your joking right" which turned me off to this forum. I thought forums were to be helpful but this was full of complaining and attacks. It has seemed to settle down and I hope this comes back to being infomative.I figure if you don't like the game complain to MS not here.

You "hardcore flight sim" guys sound just like the "leet" gamers who hammer on "newbies" for their lack of sophistication in first person shooter games.Get over yourselves. MS has opened the door for new flight afficianados, not closed it on you vets.

That right there is what I was afraid of.Please dont let the actions of a few discourage you from advancing your passion. The hard core are VERRY PASSIONATE about what they love. Sometimes there passion is misdirected. Welcome, and I hope you get to see the better side of the simming community.

I'm new to flight sims/games but a longtime pc gamer. 62 yrs old btw.I like Flight. I bought the expanded islands pack and the Maule.This is the first flight "game" I've tried and have really gotten involved in.I was thinking of buying MS Flight sim and add ons etc if I continue to enjoy this like I am.You "hardcore flight sim" guys sound just like the "leet" gamers who hammer on "newbies" for their lack of sophistication in first person shooter games.Get over yourselves. MS has opened the door for new flight afficianados, not closed it on you vets.

Hey, don't lump all hardcore simmers into that category - I am seeing more and more of them, myself included, enjoying Flight and sharing their experiences... :Kiss:

Im one of the newbies to flight sims. Flight got me into it, free at first to see if I like it, If I don't so be it, I did and bought the hawaii pack. I read several post from newbies asking basic questions and got a response of "your joking right" which turned me off to this forum. I thought forums were to be helpful but this was full of complaining and attacks. It has seemed to settle down and I hope this comes back to being infomative.

Welcome aboard. :)I'm working hard to make sure that this sort of thing doesn't happen. But I'm having a really hard time keeping up with all the posts in this forum. That is why we have a "Report" button, Feel free to use it (you can also pm me).

Edited March 5, 201214 yr by Arwen

#2, real life pilots who fly sims that DO like Flight (again, not all like it)

I think you need a #4. real life pilots who don't like flight. There are more than just a few.

Probably true, but getting gold for those missions, doesn't make you a hardcore simmer either, of course. I think most people who call themselves hardcore simmer (correct me if I'm wrong) focus heavily on airliners and knowing the ins and outs of the systems, doing everything by the book (charts, fmc, calculating fuel) and using VATSIM or something like that for flying real world (long) flights. At least, that's what most hardcore simmers I know look at it. (Maybe Word Not Allowed has another definition.) All of this is not possible in MS Flight. And hence MS Flight can't possibly be a hardcore sim. Period.Maybe the term 'hardcore simmer' has been overused without a clear definition. I think a lot of people have their own definition of it and that doesn't help the discussion, of course!

You nailed it! That was exactly what I was thinking, I took a word for granted and used it as such, without real definition.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I think you need a #4. real life pilots who don't like flight. There are more than just a few.

(again, not all like it)

I fully understand how disappointed the hard core was.

What is 'hard core' anyway?

The only "hard core simmers" I know of are the guys and gals that go to places like Flight Safety International to brush up on things like Emergency Skills and Maintain Proficiency... or go for Transition training or a Type Rating. A real simulator that means real business... that is going to enable you to handle just about any situation you are going to come across in your daily job of flying.Or maybe some of us who have 50 hours of Frasca 141 time or similar that went to the number of hours needed for a Commercial Pilot License. That is hard core simming.Us? Were a bunch a gamers playing a game that does a reasonable job simulating the Real World of Flight. Does it have any value? Sure... as an Instuctor I say it has some training and educational value and there is a lot I can learn... I would recommend FSX / FLIGHT to a student...But much of the $50 flight sim is obviously entertainment value... I don't go to Flight Safety to be entertained. I go to Flight Safety to be a better pilot. I go to FSX or FLIGHT to have FUN and be entertained... and learn a bit here or there in the process. For the money... it's the only thing I can easily afford.Want to know a hardcore simmer? There was one... a gentleman in the Beta who had 15.000hrs TT and 7.000 Turbine time... and now works at Flight Safety International. There's your hard core simmer.

Personally............I'd never want the title of "hardcore simmer". It probably wouldn't impress the girls at the bar........either.. :lol:

No me either... makes it sound like your a tween that spends all his time indoors on a computer.Edit: btw... with all the forum posting going on here... I wonder how "anyone" could get any simming done.

Just to make one thing clear. I was not trying to generalize the different groups. It was just an observation I made based on the post's. Only a fringe minority post things on forums. Maybe about .01% of Flights total user base, so my observations are only of that small group. In that small group, they are the loudest and most passionate group. But it seems like there are 3 dominate groups in the forums right now. #1, hard core simmers who DONT like Flight (some do, not all dont)#2, real life pilots who fly sims that DO like Flight (again, not all like it)#3, new users who DO like Flight (If you dont like it, you typically dont register to a forum to say so)Cant these 3 groups get along?

You forgot:#4 Real pilots who do not like Flight#5 Former tube fliers who do like Flightand#6 Flight sim enthusiasts of all stripes who like some things about Flight, but find that there are just too many things holding them back to actually buy anything.

#5 Former tube fliers who do like Flight

HAY! Tube pilots are real pilots too! I know computers do everything for them now, but they had to start out in GA's! At some point, they did once interact directly with aircraft. ;) Dear tube pilots. Im just jerking your chain!!! Anyone that can handle REAL "big iron" has my utmost respect.

Just to make one thing clear. I was not trying to generalize the different groups. It was just an observation I made based on the post's. Only a fringe minority post things on forums. Maybe about .01% of Flights total user base, so my observations are only of that small group. In that small group, they are the loudest and most passionate group. But it seems like there are 3 dominate groups in the forums right now. #1, hard core simmers who DONT like Flight (some do, not all dont)#2, real life pilots who fly sims that DO like Flight (again, not all like it)#3, new users who DO like Flight (If you dont like it, you typically dont register to a forum to say so)Cant these 3 groups get along?

Well a wise lesson learned here, is that at first we have passionated debates (before and just after release) then the dust settles and themajority comes to getter and enjoy aviation with there own preference.Only sometimes it becomes personal and that ruin the passionated debates, but we have greatgroup of moderators/administrators volunteers here at AVSIM which guide all discussions in good spirit :-)

My intent was not to dismiss the efforts of the "old timers" here. Not at all! I truly appreciate what they have added to this hobby. And most of the "old timers" are not the ones that are acting all superior, when it comes to flightsims.Sorry, my intent was to point out why we all need to be a bit more open-minded, and not polarize ourselves into "hard-core" and "casual" simmers. I'm afraid that I didn't do a very good job of expressing myself (again).

Don't worry that's the nature of this medium and the different native languagesand I really appreciated your extra effort and explanation.