Hi all,Hope you're having a great weekend.Basically, I think military flight sims are doing well at the moment (DCS, ROF, IL2 (it's getting there..) ) etc.The best thing about these sims is that they all work out of the box. you install DCS A10c and have a military grade simulation which requires little to no tweaking. Amazing!So do you think the civilian market will catch up or will we always be stuck in this 'best of a bad bunch' world we're in? For example, FSX can be great with addons however there is an immense amount of tweaking required, and even then the FPS is very low because it's poorly coded. So then X-Plane X came out which has nowhere near PMDG quality stuff yet (if ever)..I suppose my question is, do you think we will ever have a piece of software which we install, then we install our chosen addons, then it just works. It works at high FPS because it's brilliantly coded to work efficiently on modern hardware, it looks amazing, and is just easy to setup, so rather than learning an instal technique and how to push your CPU to it's upper limits, we just install and fly..I know we have some 'lite' sims, but I think you probably get what I'm getting at here..(Please note I am not talking about not having addons, I think addons are fantastic,I'm simply talking about a high quality bit of software as our sim world!)

I think your comparison is flawed. Military sims typically are simulating a relatively small area. They are primarily focused on simulating the military aircraft.On the other hand, civilian sims have to simulate the aircraft, every road/bridge in the world, the cityscapes, most airports in the world, ATC to fly all over the world, other aircraft in the airspace, cars on the road. real world weather, etc. Consequently, you are comparing two different beasts.I am pretty happy with the civilian sims, especially FSX. I do believe the XPX can be great if the development continues. (same for Flight)I dont believe that we will ever get a perfect out of the box civ simulator , primarily because "perfect" is defined 1000 ways by the user base.

Seems like most users and developers are content with the status qou, so no, I don't see a good civilian flight sim emerge anytime soon. Personally I'd like to see a more userfriendly sim and would be willing to make many compromises to get there. I'd rather have a decent Outerre based sim than FSX with all the addons in the world.

I think your comparison is flawed. Military sims typically are simulating a relatively small area. They are primarily focused on simulating the military aircraft.On the other hand, civilian sims have to simulate the aircraft, every road/bridge in the world, the cityscapes, most airports in the world, ATC to fly all over the world, other aircraft in the airspace, cars on the road. real world weather, etc. Consequently, you are comparing two different beasts.

You're correct in the sense they are two different beasts. However, you are incorrect to assume that there is "less" to simulate in a combat sim.I can recall Falcon 4 had ATC back in 1998, long before MSFS ever got it. Likewise I would wager the flight modelling of the latest combat sims like DCS and Rise of Flight are more advanced than that of the MSFS series. These latest sims are running on engines that can push more polys around faster than FSX ever could, and with more advanced lighting and shader effects to boot. Then consider the fact a combat sim has to devote processor time to the artificial intelligence required for all the other aircraft in the sim (and I think you'll find in just about every combat sim the AI aircraft do a lot more than just fly from A to B like FSX). Modelling the kinematic and ballistic performances of missiles and bombs, as well as their sensors... damage modelling..... accurately modelling aircraft sensors like radars and electro-optical systems (take a look at the Litening II AT system in DCS A-10 and tell me something like that wouldn't bring FSX to its knees).... or even modelling an entire war including all the aircraft, ground and naval units, generating air tasking orders, campaign objectives and logistics just like Falcon 4 did back in 1998.I'd argue that a combat sim has a lot more going on underneath the hood than a civilian sim.

Load up FS 2004.

Actually I think the future of sims is looking a lot brighter at the moment than it has for quite some time. You've got the new X-Plane (although I confess that I've bought that but still haven't installed it yet LOL), you've got Prepar3D, and FSX itself now runs okay now on an i7 processor, there is also still FS9, which remains a worthy sim too. Then you have Flight, which is an exciting new venture which could hold great promise, especially as far as 'things working flawlessly' is concerned, since it may well be a means to get better quality control.As far as add-ons for FSX go, we might soon have a decent A320, plus there are now more 737s than you can shake a stick at, and two Triple Sevens are on the way to supplement the ones already out there. If someone does a half decent L-1011, I'm going to be very happy indeed. Where older and smaller aircraft are concerned, the likes of A2A and Golden Age are doing great things, and there are many decent developers doing modern GA stuff too. Then you have several high end developers making military stuff for FSX as well. Scenery add-ons are also as well served by many decent developers.Add to this stuff such as that from DCS, and you have to say that it is actually a great time to be into flight sims, and it not really been possible to honestly say that since the days of Janes and Microprose.Al

Add to this stuff such as that from DCS, and you have to say that it is actually a great time to be into flight sims, and it not really been possible to honestly say that since the days of Janes and Microprose.Al

Oh man, were those the days or what?I agree, I think the future for us flight simmers is looking better and better now. Some exciting stuff going on right now...

I think FSX with Orbx scenery and RealAir or Carenado aircraft is pretty close to perfect.With faster hardware, FSX just keeps getting better!

We are in deep trouble my friends. Why? Well I just bought AeroflyFS. It looks amazing. With my trusty Core i7 920, I can run it with everything maxed out and it has all the graphics goodies we have been pining for in FSX. Shadowing, HDR, bloom, you name it, it's got it. But what it doesn't have is all the features we've come to expect and enjoy in FSX. No ATC, no clickable VCs, no detailed weather engine, no nav aids, no nothing. All the framerate gobbling features that distinguish a sim from a game have been left out. Simply because a new, clean-sheet sim CAN'T have all the features of something like FSX that has gone through 10 development cycles. Until now, I have not appreciated just how desperate our situation now is. With Microsoft bailing on a new version of Flight Simulator and instead cashing it's code base in to make the Flight game, we have no way of building on all the man years of development that has gone into FSX. New sims may look pretty but of necessity they will lack the depth of features we already have. X-Plane, even V10, struggles to provide a comparable experience to FSX, let alone better it. So that leaves P3D as the only credible way forward. Lockheed-Martin are a military contractor with no history in video games and for all the posturing by various players both inside and outside of the company, no worthwhile improvements beyond the current capabilities of FSX have been delivered. At least, not enough to justify the entrance fee. So to the op, my answer is no, the future of civilian flight sims looks parlous at best. Now get off my lawn!Noel.

MA,. Its never been better and will continue to progress.

The FSX community and even the FS 2004 community is still huge. Software developpers will still bring new products for both for a long time. At this moment with current hardware and great addons you can really speak of a FSX v2.X-Plane 9.7 has it's own 'believers' and they will stick to it until X-Plane 10 (huge potential!) becomes mature. More and more third party developpers will start making products for it, even PMDG.AeroflyFS has great potential and can become better than FSX within a few years.Even the MS Flight engine is good but unfortunately we all have to deal with the new Microsoft policy.The freeware Fly! Legacy and Flight Gear will develop further, although grapfically they are no macth yet and maybe they will never be.In the meantime i enjoy my great expanded FSX !The future looks bright. :(

I certainly hope FSX continues to evolve based on the hard work of talented third party developers and creative individuals.To that point, though, what are some of the things that CAN'T be done because core code FSX development has ceased?