April 15, 201214 yr Is it possible for you to sound any more arrogant? "backbone of flight's success?? The peolpe who buy the game are the "backbone of Flight's success" Ignoring your tone, I strongly disagree with your contention. An individual (ie you) who buys a game contributes significantly less, than an individual who provides hours and hours of time testing and providing intelligent documented feedback to developers so that the game that emerges delights its target audience. I have bought many games that were disappointing and poorly developed - the fact that I bought them did not make them successful. If beta testers retain the slightest 'perks' (dubious ones at that) then more power to them. Finally, yes, the game is out of beta, but future aspects of it are not, therefore the retention of a loyal beta team is indeed desirable. PS - am not a beta tester, but getting a bit fed-up with some of the whingeing comments from those not in that wider team.
April 15, 201214 yr Is it possible for you to sound any more arrogant? "backbone of flight's success?? The peolpe who buy the game are the "backbone of Flight's success" That was the comment that put him on my Ignore list. I am aware that he is still a child so I did not "go off" on him, but I have had enough of the snotty remarks. As to people asking "When was the last time I had access to the Devs?" How about every single game I've been involved in for the last decade. Longer than a decade, actually. I'm not sure what games you've been playing, but the Devs maintaining open communications with the customers is something that it normal, commonplace, and expected. In other products, if I want to see what's being worked on and what issues are being reported or discussed, I can simply look on the forums which are unlocked and open to all. If I want to try out the upcoming patch, it's simply a matter of downloading and applying it, or downloading the "test client." But the important part is simply the information itself. Devs limiting access to only a few of their paying customers while excluding the bulk is an aberration. This isn't 1994 any longer.
April 15, 201214 yr And for the sake of it, ATC is the least of worries for the Flight devs atm because they are worried getting stuff out so we can enjoy flying. Mind you, Flight is a game where you enjoy the way of FLYING, not the way of OPERATING AN AIRCRAFT. As a dev said "The game is about the act of flying, not about the act of operating an aircraft". If you want to fly in a simulator that shows you the way to operate an aircraft; please, go get X Plane, Prepar3D, or Flight Gear. This game is not for you. I think flying in a world that is not empty is not operating an aircraft. ATC is needed to keep separation in the busy airports. I think landing at international airports with a bunch of traffic would be fun. Landing at a big airport with nobody else there make me think the Langoliers are going to get me. :shok:
April 15, 201214 yr If beta testers retain the slightest 'perks' (dubious ones at that) then more power to them. Interesting, so now being informed about upcoming bug fixes and product enhancement are perks only for beta testers but not paying customers? As RoboRay mention this is the kind of one-way and insider-only game customer communication strategy that was fine 10 years ago before social networking or product forums, but today really does much more harm than good. IMHO this is just a continuation of their poor Flight pre-release communications strategy that I had hoped they were learning does no one any good: 1. Keep the pre-release sim or simlite Flight product focus ambiguous in the marketing, ignore the fact that there is a huge loyal following for the series that wants to know if this is FS11 or nothing like it 2. Have a large, very late, closed beta, with a hard NDA that prevents participants from sharing any info about the product, not even the most basic questions to confirm or deny the hopes or misunderstandings of a eager loyal customer base 3. When some of the closed beta testers are disappointed and start breaking the NDA to spill the beans on their disappointment, don't provide any more hard facts about the product to explain or confirm or deny the product focus or included or not included features, allow the NDA breakers to control the tone and perception of the product via leaked youtube videos and posts on forums such as this one causing the community to split and fight itself without any official facts or context 4. After release continue to provide minimal product information or interaction with your new customers about patches or requested enhancements, continue ambiguous corporate speak via interviews and provide direct interaction or communication just only to your closed beta testers, rely on them to leak out the information to your customers. I want to stress that I appreciate the beta testers and I don't have a problem with them getting perks for their hard work, and I am a supporter of Flight and want it to succeed, that is the reason I'm pointing out that their current product development communication/interaction strategy may be rewarding to the beta testers still involved, but it serves to alienate the paying customers like me. Planned patch and enhancement info is not a beta tester perk, it is key information for customers who paid for the existing product and want to know about it so they can decide whether to keep supporting the DLC or not. --John near KPAE
April 15, 201214 yr the fever off "you owe me and you must tell me everything now" will never go away....... Image removed as image is no longer available.
April 15, 201214 yr the fever off "you owe me and you must tell me everything now" will never go away....... Yeah exactly, most other game studios these days figure this out and actually use it to their advantage to build a good product following and loyal customer base. --John near KPAE
April 15, 201214 yr Yeah exactly, most other game studios these days figure this out and actually use it to their advantage to build a good product following and loyal customer base. good for them.. Image removed as image is no longer available.
April 15, 201214 yr good for them.. Your statement seems provocative, not constructive and it adds no suggestion to how Flight can improve. His point instead tells that establishing a relationship with customers increases the overall quality of the product. An example ? Football Manager and Civilization where day by day dozens of developers and producers chat with fans listening to their suggestions and putting them into the next patch release. I know we are speaking about other planets.
April 15, 201214 yr Moderator Planned patch and enhancement info is not a beta tester perk, it is key information for customers who paid for the existing product and want to know about it so they can decide whether to keep supporting the DLC or not. I think it is only prudent that patches be throughly tested by a small control group before being pushed out to everyone... ...especially given that they are using an entirely new delivery system, and that -as far as I know- the "Law of Unintended Consequences" has not been repealed! As a case in point, MSGS did NOT ask selected members of the beta team to test the last update patch push before releasing it to every customer. If they had done so, then the unintended consequence of the aerocache and stats synchronization would have been discovered... ...thus saving them from them the public embarrasment of pushing out a flawed patch! This time, they selected about thirty willing guinea pigs - er, I mean beta testers - to make sure that the aerocache and stats synch "fix" worked as expected and did not break something else! Fr. Bill AOPA Member: 07141481 AARP Member: 3209010556 Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator
April 15, 201214 yr As a case in point, MSGS did NOT ask selected members of the beta team to test the last update patch push before releasing it to every customer. If they had done so, then the unintended consequence of the aerocache and stats synchronization would have been discovered... ...thus saving them from them the public embarrasment of pushing out a flawed patch! This time, they selected about thirty willing guinea pigs - er, I mean beta testers - to make sure that the aerocache and stats synch "fix" worked as expected and did not break something else! I like you n4gix when you speak like that, I really like you when you have this mood. Please keep up the good mood.
April 15, 201214 yr Mark I know exactly what he means and by the way im not trying to be provocative at all. When ever ms gets a official support forum we may get more public interaction other than on steam. Once again I dont have any interest in been provocative and starting a argument with anyone here. Hope you get it ... Image removed as image is no longer available.
April 15, 201214 yr Please, shut up. You are talking out of your &@($* and only adding fuel to the fire. To say Beta testers are the backbone of Flights success is so ridiculous. Why do you feel the need to be so arrogant to people when you talk to them? Not just in this instance, but in general? You need some communication skills. If I am not wrong, the OP (Alex) has stated somewhere** that he is only 14 years of age so it's not really arrogance but inexperience.( so maybe it's time to give the kid a break ? He is only trying to be helpful. ) ** http://forum.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=367687&hl= Fred. Frederic Steiner.
April 15, 201214 yr I think it is only prudent that patches be throughly tested by a small control group before being pushed out to everyone... ...especially given that they are using an entirely new delivery system, and that -as far as I know- the "Law of Unintended Consequences" has not been repealed! SNIP This time, they selected about thirty willing guinea pigs - er, I mean beta testers - to make sure that the aerocache and stats synch "fix" worked as expected and did not break something else! That makes sense Fr. Bill, and I'm glad you guys are still testing that stuff before wider impact especially since the patches are not optional. Here's hoping they do indeed start communicating/interacting on the Steam forums about upcoming fixes and enhancements so those of us interested can stay up to date without you beta testers getting caught in the middle or having to decide what you can or can't share. --John near KPAE
April 15, 201214 yr the fever off "you owe me and you must tell me everything now" will never go away....... There is a big difference between "entitlement" and "equality."
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