I'm normally beginning to descend as I turn Base. I honestly don't look much at my VSI during approach and landing, as I'm focused on the runway

 

Good for you Ray! :good: Ignoring that VSI! Your eyes will tell you everything you need to know... just a peek now and then at the Airspeed Indicator.

 

I was trained (and also taught in the Cessnas / Pipers) for a Normal Landing the following:

 

-Abeam the Numbers: Power 1500rpm / Slow the Plane to 80kts before descending (Slow Down before you go down) / 1st Notch Flaps once below Vfe

 

-Numbers 45° (behind you): Start Base Turn / 2nd Notch Flaps / Slow to 70kts

 

-Turn Final: Last Notch of Flaps / Pitch to Approach Speed (verify by Checking Airspeed Indicator) EYES OUTSIDE!

 

This "Abeam the Numbers" is also known as the "Key Position"... Whether Power On Landing or Power off landing (sooner Base Turn) or Engine Failure... you are doing the "same thing" every time.

 

Engine failure occurs at Cruise Altitude... one glides to the Key Position and circles above it departing the Key Position (heading downwind) at least 1000' AGL.

 

Then this type of "known" can be altered as necessary for the specific aircraft and conditions being flown.

 

In the Maule, I like to pull back to 15" MAP (around 50% power) on Downwind... At Abeam the Numbers power back to 13" (roughly 40% power) first two notch of flaps. 80mph / 70mph /65mph works well (with the addition of flaps on base and final)... power can come out during the flare.

 

Power Off Landings: Of course you fly a "tighter" pattern, 70mph works well with that first two notches of flaps... maintain that 70mph until the flare.

 

This is referring to the Maule... but as Larry said, both methods (power on and off) work fine. Having a touch of power in the flare for Short Field speeds can be a nice thing to help settle in softly.

 

Btw thanks jcomm for that article.

Looks like MS modeled that effect pretty accurately!

 

Yes :-( There are many aspects FLIGHT models accurately... I can never get totally mad at it .... after all, where's the alternative?

 

Yes :-( There are many aspects FLIGHT models accurately... I can never get totally mad at it .... after all, where's the alternative?

 

Heh, yes. And to think... I had some doubts about the realism of the Flight Maule's behavior during the flare, until I read that article. It just goes to show that you can't really judge fine details in the flight model of a simulated plane without having flown the real one, or at least checking those details with someone who has.

Yes, even taking the cockpitless aircraft as an example. I almost could believe there are some details that might suggest the A2A team were behind it :-). Things like the Zero showing a yaw moment from the assymetric gear retraction, etc...

 

Of course on those models things had to be simplified, but for instance the takeoff in the p-51 feels realistic for a takeoff performed by the book where they first dial-in 6 degrees of rudder trim. Not being able to have the trim wheel in a cockpitless aircraft, they simplified the things, but most of the p-51 characteristics seem to be there :-)

In the Maule, I like to pull back to 15" MAP (around 50% power) on Downwind... At Abeam the Numbers power back to 13" (roughly 40% power) first two notch of flaps. 80mph / 70mph /65mph works well (with the addition of flaps on base and final)... power can come out during the flare.

HeLLo

Thanks for that very interesting and simple explanation. The whole discussion is quite interesting. The "Flight"'s model of flight is complex and subtle so thanks to all contributors here.

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I find the base-leg hard to do without moving the view point to look to the side with the hat switch, then moving it forward again to adjust the plane (i see the wonder of track-ir for moving the view). Im not very fond of fiddling with the hat switch on landing. Alltough it's non-standard, flying downwind a little longer (1.5 of standard) then doing a direct U-turn to upwind/final, then you don't have to worry about fiddling with the side view. Skipping the base-leg will cause you to be slightly off course for final, but with the added 1.5 you'll be on "long final" with ample of time to correct the lineup to the runway, all without having to leave move the cockpit view. Instructors would kill me, but in a simulator doing all of the visual lineup in the front view is a lot less cumbersome than fiddling with the hat switch and views while keeping a steady descent.

 

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I find the base-leg hard to do without moving the view point to look to the side with the hat switch, then moving it forward again to adjust the plane (i see the wonder of track-ir for moving the view).-

 

Yes, I specially miss TrackIR during landings! Looking back over your shoulder where the treshold is with the mouse is far from ideal. I don't use the hatswitch because it takes too long and it's not precise enough for me. BTW You say you move your view forward again with the hatswitch: I think simply resetting the view with Backspace works a lot faster and more precise? I use Backspace even when I have used the mouse to look around.

Every instructor I've had (and I doubt I'm alone here) has told me the hardest part of the circuit/pattern is judging your descent on base. Just have to practice. I know I don't have it right in Flight yet - but that's more to do with sim trim always being harder than IRL. To reset my view just just go backspace then hit =/+ three times.

 

Mike

I find the base-leg hard to do without moving the view point to look to the side with the hat switch, then moving it forward again to adjust the plane (i see the wonder of track-ir for moving the view). Im not very fond of fiddling with the hat switch on landing. Alltough it's non-standard, flying downwind a little longer (1.5 of standard) then doing a direct U-turn to upwind/final, then you don't have to worry about fiddling with the side view. Skipping the base-leg will cause you to be slightly off course for final, but with the added 1.5 you'll be on "long final" with ample of time to correct the lineup to the runway, all without having to leave move the cockpit view. Instructors would kill me, but in a simulator doing all of the visual lineup in the front view is a lot less cumbersome than fiddling with the hat switch and views while keeping a steady descent.

 

The freedom to look anywhere, anytime, in a natural fashion is the beauty of headtracking and why it is critical in flight sims.

 

No real world pilot flies with his vision locked straight forward, even when flying on instruments.

 

You must be able to look around to fly.

 

I get by in Flight by turning with one hat and moving my eyepoint around with two more, then hitting Reset View a lot, but it's no substitute for TrackIR.

To reset my view just just go backspace then hit =/+ three times.

 

Sounds to me you'd better change the default zoom...! http://forum.avsim.net/tutorials/article/24-adjust-the-cockpit-initialzoom/

I get by in Flight by turning with one hat and moving my eyepoint around with two more, then hitting Reset View a lot, but it's no substitute for TrackIR.

 

+1 in a big way!!

Sounds to me you'd better change the default zoom...! http://forum.avsim.n...it-initialzoom/

 

Or your Eyepoint postion... http://forum.avsim.n...point-position/

 

Or both! :Hug:

 

I guess somebody should put together a consolidated "Changing your Default View" tutorial to put the Zoom, Eyepoint "XYX" and Eyepoint "PBH" adjustments in one place. I think we've got discussion spread across three topics for all that, as it is.

Sounds to me you'd better change the default zoom...! http://forum.avsim.n...it-initialzoom/

 

Thanks! I tried using space (as you suggested), but it reset the default zoom too. So the link.. this was great advice!

 

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A ton of great information here! I was wondering in the beginning of this post, some people mention flaps at a certain percentage. How do you know how much flaps you're using? I've just been eyeballing it and pressing f5 or f6 in hopes that I have enough flaps for landing. Usually full flaps is too much and little flaps is too little.

 

On another note, I've noticed the same thing regarding the maule landing air speed (50kt or so) vs the rv, where you nearly are forced to cut the throttle completely in order to land at a reasonable speed. Is it just the fact that in the maule you're carrying a heavy load and its a heavier plane? When I first started flying the maule, I did my best to go by the checklist but always landed short of the runway or just dropped like a rock

The Maule has -7, 0, 24, 40, and 48° flap settings. Each press of the flap control buttons move them up or down a full step, unlike the RV-6's electric flaps which allow positioning anywhere in their range of operation.

 

I expect you can find out which setting you are on by holding the mouse pointer over the Maule's flap handle (to get a tool-tip), but I just count notches in my head (or look left at the underside of the wing, if I lose track).