Does anyone know if southwest will change airtrans 737s to match the rest of the fleet? For instance will they change the PFDs from the dual cue to the single cue? I would assume so but just asking to be sure. And since we are on the topic, how is it for other mergers? Do they usually make the "adopted" aircraft match the parents fleet? Hit must cost a good amount of money to make these changes, no? Or are they just simple software changes? Thanks

 

Adam Kaleniak

Does anyone know if southwest will change airtrans 737s to match the rest of the fleet? For instance will they change the PFDs from the dual cue to the single cue? I would assume so but just asking to be sure. And since we are on the topic, how is it for other mergers? Do they usually make the "adopted" aircraft match the parents fleet? Hit must cost a good amount of money to make these changes, no? Or are they just simple software changes? Thanks

 

Adam Kaleniak

 

Presumably, they will update the onboard software that powers the displays to match the current fleet. Although, if money is tight and the changeover is expensive, it wouldn't surprise me if they left them as is.

From what I understand, the display stuff is just a matter of programming. It'll cost a lot more to change the seats, interior, paint, and convert from GoGo (air to ground) to Row44 (satellite) for the wifi.

 

Now, I know when SWA changed from EFIS/MAP to the PFD/ND that the pilots needed to be trained on the new displays. I don't know what, if any, training would be required for these little changes. I imagine it would be negligible.

I'm absolutely sure that the displays and software options are all changed to match SWA's. I'm sure they added a HUD, but I'm not sure about the various panels..for example, the pedestal - SWA and AirTran have different locations of the transponder, etc. It seems that since they paint the airplanes, add wifi, and re-do the cabin, they might as well make the cockpits match the current

-H4 delivery standards. It'll make it easier on them in the long run. But yes, I can assure you that the displays and software all match SWA's fleet.

Are there any SWA or AirTran pilots/employees that can comment on this?

I'm absolutely sure that the displays and software options are all changed to match SWA's. I'm sure they added a HUD, but I'm not sure about the various panels..for example, the pedestal - SWA and AirTran have different locations of the transponder, etc. It seems that since they paint the airplanes, add wifi, and re-do the cabin, they might as well make the cockpits match the current

-H4 delivery standards. It'll make it easier on them in the long run. But yes, I can assure you that the displays and software all match SWA's fleet.

Are there any SWA or AirTran pilots/employees that can comment on this?

 

I don't think the 717 is certified for use of a HUD. The 717 was never meant to compliment the 737. She was designed for commonality between the MD-11 and 717. So I don't think they'll redesign the entire cockpit when there is no need to. So here's a solution keep the 737 drivers on the 737 and the 717 drivers on the 717. No money needed whatsoever to train pilots (except for the maintenance people and cabin crews)or completely redesign a flight deck (which I've never heard of).

Small things like the Software can be changed. If, however, an aircraft came from the factory with different options, then those will likely be left alone. When that happens, they just make a more about it in their FCM and tell them if there are any procedural changes to that aircraft.

Of course don't under estimate the cost of a software change. The FAA told Continental they could switch the the PFD/ND format with no additional training after they retired the last of the -300s (which was over two years ago) but Boeing wanted nearly $40,000 per airplane to do it. Continental got very angry seeing as they are a Boeing only airline and had huge orders with them. Finally they said for get it and are still flying around with the old round dial format.

 

We ran into the same issue when we wanted to switch from the round fuel gauges to the fuel totalizer style. It delayed the change for several years. Boeing really does gouge for seemingly minor software changes.

I don't think the 717 is certified for use of a HUD. The 717 was never meant to compliment the 737. She was designed for commonality between the MD-11 and 717. So I don't think they'll redesign the entire cockpit when there is no need to. So here's a solution keep the 737 drivers on the 737 and the 717 drivers on the 717. No money needed whatsoever to train pilots (except for the maintenance people and cabin crews)or completely redesign a flight deck (which I've never heard of).

I wasn't talking about the 717 - it is a completely different aircraft, and not the subject of this "AirTrans 737's" thread.

I wasn't talking about the 717 - it is a completely different aircraft, and not the subject of this "AirTrans 737's" thread.

 

I was having difficulty with my contacts so I couldn't really see well and I thought AirTran only operated the 717. Sorry about that.

I was having difficulty with my contacts so I couldn't really see well and I thought AirTran only operated the 717. Sorry about that.

No problem :)

I'm absolutely sure that the displays and software options are all changed to match SWA's. I'm sure they added a HUD, but I'm not sure about the various panels..for example, the pedestal - SWA and AirTran have different locations of the transponder, etc. It seems that since they paint the airplanes, add wifi, and re-do the cabin, they might as well make the cockpits match the current

-H4 delivery standards. It'll make it easier on them in the long run. But yes, I can assure you that the displays and software all match SWA's fleet.

Are there any SWA or AirTran pilots/employees that can comment on this?

 

I flew for airtran for 8 years and just came over to the southwest side for 737 training, I bought this PMDG thing to practice on before I go into the sim. The 737's that come over to southwest will be changed somewhat to match the southwest airplanes but what southwest has realized is that Airtran was FAR FAR more advanced in the way they operated their 737's than how SW does. AT took full advantage of the automation whereas SW really did not even use most of the automation that their 700's had until 2 years ago and they are slowly getting with the times. Really the only difference i have seen is that they use a single cue FD and AT uses a dual cue and SW has the hud, most of the differences are in HOW they operate the airplanes.

But having said that I am a 717 guy and didnt know much about the 737 at the Tran.

 

I had a week off from training and I was going to go back early to practice in the sim, but this thing is so realistic im just gonna stay home and practice in my room. Its pretty amazing, a far cry from the Flight sim I used to play on years ago when I was getting my ratings.

Glad to see we have a SW/FL pilot here on the forums!

Some good replies here folks. Wow, 40K per plane? I'm no expert but how can what seems like a simple software change cost as much as a nice car? And boeing 717, do you know if they are converting the AirTran 737's to single cue on the PFD?

 

adam kaleniak

Some good replies here folks. Wow, 40K per plane? I'm no expert but how can what seems like a simple software change cost as much as a nice car? And boeing 717, do you know if they are converting the AirTran 737's to single cue on the PFD?

 

adam kaleniak

 

Crap I hope not I hate single cue!!!!! But they probably will, If I recall right a mechanic once showed me that you can just change it in the MCDU.

SW really did not even use most of the automation that their 700's had until 2 years ago and they are slowly getting with the times

 

You mean the times of letting the aircraft do all the flying and throw pilotage out of the equation? That's what makes SWA such a great airline.. Pilots get to fly the aircraft and skills remain sharp.. Are you getting training in the -300/-500 as well?