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ethanpilot787

KOAK Skyline Three Departure

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While trying the Skyline Three departure from KOAK (http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1207/00294SKYLINE.PDF), I am having trouble complying with the 2000 ft restriction up to 4NM from the OAK VORTAC, because the NGX easily reaches this altitude far before 4NM. After watching some real departures on Youtube, I have yet to notice any plane level off during the departure. I was wondering if anyone knows the proper way to fly this departure.

 

Thank you,

Ethan E.

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It looks like "no lower than 2000ft" restriction, so why would you stop at 2000ft? Look at NOTE1, you have more than 375fpm vertical speed.

 

Im not too familiar with that US format of charts but I think when you have altitude with line above numbers that mean you should fly "at or above"; if you have altitude with line bellow numbers thats "fly at or below".


[color=#a9a9a9][size=1][size=4][img]http://forum.avsim.net/public/style_images/flags/rs.png[/img][/size] Lj. Prodanovic[/size][/color]

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Are you using assumed temperature, de-rates, and reduced climbs? The NG is a very powerful aircraft, especially with light loads. Most airlines use de-rates and reduced climb thrust which would help them meet that restriction.

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It looks like "no lower than 2000ft" restriction, so why would you stop at 2000ft? Look at NOTE1, you have more than 375fpm vertical speed.

 

Im not too familiar with that US format of charts but I think when you have altitude with line above numbers that mean you should fly "at or above"; if you have altitude with line bellow numbers thats "fly at or below".

 

I think it is the other way around. In this case, its 2000 ft or below at the 4NM mark.

 

 

Are you using assumed temperature, de-rates, and reduced climbs? The NG is a very powerful aircraft, especially with light loads. Most airlines use de-rates and reduced climb thrust which would help them meet that restriction.

 

I did not use any de-rates. I'll give that a try, but even then it feels like a very small rate of climb.

 

Thank you,

Ethan E.

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I think it is the other way around. In this case, its 2000 ft or below at the 4NM mark.

Maybe, Im not sure, but Note1 says that there is obstacle so I think its just crazy to have "at or below" restriction at place like that.


[color=#a9a9a9][size=1][size=4][img]http://forum.avsim.net/public/style_images/flags/rs.png[/img][/size] Lj. Prodanovic[/size][/color]

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It is MAX 2000 D4 OAK MAX 3000 D6 OAK (at or below) Then onto whichever radial intercept outbound to your transition.


Paul Wood

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It is MAX 2000 D4 OAK MAX 3000 D6 OAK (at or below) Then onto whichever radial intercept outbound to your transition.

 

I see, that is partially right, there is no 3000ft restricition acording to this:

http://dtpp.myairpla...94SKYLINE_C.PDF

btw, love textual descriptions, always helps.

Still, there is 1800ft obstacle at few miles from airport (some strange hill with antennas), so I wouldn't like to be anywhere near.


[color=#a9a9a9][size=1][size=4][img]http://forum.avsim.net/public/style_images/flags/rs.png[/img][/size] Lj. Prodanovic[/size][/color]

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Paul is mostly correct. For a northbound departure at OAK 4 DME it is at or below 2000, signaled by the line drawn across the top of the "2000", then at 3000 turn heading 200 until intercept of the PYE 135 radial, then at or above 9000 by PORTE, signaled by the underline drawn under the "9000", and so on.


Regards,

Kyle

li1t.png

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I see, that is partially right, there is no 3000ft restricition acording to this:

http://dtpp.myairpla...94SKYLINE_C.PDF

btw, love textual descriptions, always helps.

Still, there is 1800ft obstacle at few miles from airport (some strange hill with antennas), so I wouldn't like to be anywhere near.

 

I can't open your chart from some reason. 404 error.

 

I'm looking at the latest version of Navigraph and it shows a 3000B restriction for departures out of RWY 09L/R, & 29 . D6 OAK MAX 3000. It's demarcated by the SIXDY fix on the departure.


Paul Wood

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I think ATC will amend your climb instructions based on what NORCAL has for traffic in the Bay Area airports at that time. Sometimes they need to hold you down, and you stick with the SID, otherwise when you check in with NORCAL, you'll get a climb.


Matt Cee

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You can find recommendations about leveling off at low altitude in FCTM 4.2.

If it's hard to understand graphic chart, use text chart. Kyle has given you the link for it.

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I can't open your chart from some reason. 404 error.

 

I'm looking at the latest version of Navigraph and it shows a 3000B restriction for departures out of RWY 09L/R, & 29 . D6 OAK MAX 3000. It's demarcated by the SIXDY fix on the departure.

 

Yea, I guess I should read whole post next time, its one line long ffs. Next time I should stop to write nonsenses and go to bed in 2am.

 

 

My apologize man :smile:

 

You can find recommendations about leveling off at low altitude in FCTM 4.2.

If it's hard to understand graphic chart, use text chart. Kyle has given you the link for it.

 

its just a technique not reason for restriction:

Low Altitude Level Off - During Climb

Occasionally a low altitude climb restriction is required after takeoff. This altitude

restriction should be set in the MCP altitude window. When the airplane

approaches this altitude, the mode annunciation changes to VNAV ALT (as

installed) and the airplane levels off. For airplanes without VNAV ALT installed,

the mode annunciation initially changes to ALT ACQ, then ALT HOLD.

Note: If ALT ACQ occurs before N1 is selected, automatic thrust reduction

occurs and the autothrottle speed mode engages.

PMDG NGX FCTM 4.2

 

My first link was that textual explanation, but for some reason that link doesnt work :o


[color=#a9a9a9][size=1][size=4][img]http://forum.avsim.net/public/style_images/flags/rs.png[/img][/size] Lj. Prodanovic[/size][/color]

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its just a technique not reason for restriction:

 

Of course. I just added this to post. It can be many reasons for restriction in different airports and they cannot be covered in FCTM.

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My first link was that textual explanation, but for some reason that link doesnt work

the link you supplied in your first post works for me


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