Hi Folks,

 

I remember back - when I was a boy (10years ago :P ) The Microsoft Force Feedback Pro joystick reigned supreme in the peripheral department. Some of my best memories are using it to play NFS Hot Pursuit, FFB in all its glory made the game very satisfying for the time.

 

Fast forward to present day, and I've been casually simming for 6 months or so using a cheapie Av8r-01.

 

So having a look around I see that the majority, if not all stick on the market these days come sans, FFB. If i'm not mistaken this includes popular sticks suck as, Saitek X-52, Pro Cessna Yoke, CH Sticks, Thrustmaster HOTAS just to name a few.

 

Is there a reason the industry has moved away from FFB? Has it been replaced by something else, or is it truely an unneeded addition these days?

 

Infact so far the only 'recent' stick I've seen to include FFB is the Logitech Flight System G940 - which has received very mixed reviews.

 

Can anyone shed some light on this for a newbie? :D Thanks

I guess you've hit the nail on the head. The hardware is either not worth a look (means the cheap FF renditions) or pretty much in a niche and expensive. Though the G940 set and the rather high price may justify themselves due to the included devices. When buying some quality yoke, throttle and pedals, you won't end up much cheaper.

 

The throttle may need some user mod (unless they've changed the production now, which I doubt), but the rest is pretty much spot on in quality terms. The FF itself may be slightly better on the MS Sidewinder, but that stick unfortunately isn't available any more, while the Ebay folks or some second hand stores may help though.

 

I'm running the G940 with FSForce (had the Sidewinder before) which gives a lot of input and e.g. allows for feeling the out of trim forces and things. Something a spring loaded yoke or joystick couldn't establish. Same for the feel of the stall buffet arising and the other options like control cable friction, bumps and all the bells and whistles of that often underestimated FF tech.

 

There is a FF yoke out, but when you see the price, you will start to cry. :(

Its a good question. I still use my trustie Cyborg Evo FFB and i too look around and see no FFB joysticks. Its odd as despite maybe a higher cost it adds so much more to simming with regards to movement and feel, feedback on pulling up out of a dive for example.. I think i will miss it when i eventually upgrade to something newer as no one seems to make them anymore.

Such is the price of some of these sticks and yokes i'm would have thought in this day and age it would all be standard now. Console pads have been doing it for some 15 years now.

Did you ever try the old MS Sidewinder, Simon? I'm still in awe on the engineering. Best FF stick I've ever had.

I'm still flying with my old Sidewinder FFB2 stick using FSForce. I will shed more than a few tears when it expires. The FFB yoke looks awesome but the price is out of reach for me.

Many more using yokes which are mechanical FFB.

Is there such a thing like a standard tutorial for the self made FF yokes?

Many more using yokes which are mechanical FFB.

 

What is "mechanical force feedback"?

 

 

That's Diesel driven, in comparison to the laser driven ones. Wait, I think I'm mixing up some items.

I remember a few years back force feedback was all the rage. Hardly a new addon aircraft was released without some discussion about its FF settings and glitches. There were hundreds of threads here about how important it was. Suddenly, about five years ago, all discussion of force feedback ceased, and that probably coincided with the fact that most joystick makers abandoned it.

 

How I regret selling my Sidewinder stick a few years ago. I genuinely thought that something better would be made, but it is still the best FF stick I've tried. Force feedback has now been replaced by a new swathe of cheap looking sticks with barely an inch throw in either direction, poor ergonomics and sub-standard inner parts. I've given up buying new ones now and still have my Cyborg Evo, from which I removed the "rest", because I hate them.

 

I've looked without success for a long throw joystick (at least six inches throw in pitch and roll) because the tiny movement of most contemporary sticks are ridiculous. Bob at RC sim has, and sells, long throw sticks and they are very good, but the cost is prohibitive.

 

Anyone who comes up with a reasonably inexpensive but good quality stick with more than three inches movement could make a viable business.

Cool IP asked: Is there such a thing like a standard tutorial for the self made FF yokes?

 

Check out this site-http://buggies.builtforfun.co.uk

Thanks, Bruce. I've found this one on the site. http://bffsimulation.../FFB-yoke-1.php

 

My guess is that the DIY concept alone will not lead many into the ways of a FF yoke. If one would build and sell them, the thing would be going. Means a price lower than a thousand bucks.

 

But that site is cool. Homebuilt motion platform and things. http://bffsimulation...kpit-images.php Woohoo!

 

I've looked without success for a long throw joystick (at least six inches throw in pitch and roll) because the tiny movement of most contemporary sticks are ridiculous. Bob at RC sim has, and sells, long throw sticks and they are very good, but the cost is prohibitive.

I think I saw someone modding his MS Sidewinder 2 with a long heli stick and a lot of movement.

 

I guess that, nowadays, FF still suffers from a bad image. More than once I had folks asking about 'that rumble feature' since they seem to relate FF to the gamepads with the shacking through a very simple mechanism. Even when trying, most guys were looking for a wow effect of some kind, while missing the subtle movement or just the altered friction when changing planes. That's all from using FSForce though.

 

When looking back, we buy a lot of 'silly' things to enhance immersion in FSX, huh? Trackir with the need for a cap or the freeware with the tracking, EZCA for shacking, Accufeel for shacking, your planes and some others with a shaking and sound feature. All this for making looking at a flat screen a bit better.

I remember a few years back force feedback was all the rage. Hardly a new addon aircraft was released without some discussion about its FF settings and glitches. There were hundreds of threads here about how important it was. Suddenly, about five years ago, all discussion of force feedback ceased, and that probably coincided with the fact that most joystick makers abandoned it.

 

How I regret selling my Sidewinder stick a few years ago. I genuinely thought that something better would be made, but it is still the best FF stick I've tried. Force feedback has now been replaced by a new swathe of cheap looking sticks with barely an inch throw in either direction, poor ergonomics and sub-standard inner parts. I've given up buying new ones now and still have my Cyborg Evo, from which I removed the "rest", because I hate them.

 

 

Yep, I've still got my Sidewinder stick... it's lasted the longest of all my FS peripherals. I have the FFB2 version but I love to fly without FFB enabled, the loose stick is more realistic to what I flew in real life... I did once fly a plane with spring loaded ailerons - it was an interesting feeling for sure.

Did you ever try the old MS Sidewinder, Simon? I'm still in awe on the engineering. Best FF stick I've ever had.

 

I remember it but don't think i used it. What a shame we have to try and hang onto these as theres nothing newer.

 

I just realised that with my Cyborg Evo FFB i'm running alot of the buttons, rudder through FSUIPC but i have to run the axis movements through FSX as it won't support FFB.

I think any manufacturer can produce a good FF yoke but there is no market for it. If you look at Logitech and their G-27 wheel for racing sims it is fantastic. I use it with GT5 and really like the feeling. I wish there was something equivalent for FSX.