Moving from FSX to P3D forces me to look at each add-on, and determine which will work and which won't. As I believe P3D will ultimately become the sim most FSX users migrate to, I can't help notice the companies that are doing it right, and those making a big mistake.

 

Take FSDT, for example. I have every add-on airport from them, and they make top-quality products. What is their position on P3D? They have updated their installers so it detects if you have P3D, and then installs accordingly. If you bought their airports and previously activated them in FSX, everything works perfectly in P3D. And you can use the same airports in either sim. This is exactly the response I expected from them. I will buy whatever they make. FlightBeam and FlyTampa are similar.

 

REX would be a step down, but still good. If you bought REX Essentials, for an extra $5 you can get the P3D version activated. I took advantage of it, and do not feel negative towards them about it.

 

Then we have Flight1. For the record, they do not support P3D. This is very unfortunate, since I have several of their products. I can respect their decision not to support P3D, but believe that in the long run this could be a big mistake. I buy a lot of add-ons. I have the Mustang, and UT2. Since I now know their policy towards P3D, I won't be buying their products, even if I wanted them for FSX alone. Sorry, but there are just too many choices out their. I could spend the rest of my life with PMDG and Carenado planes.

 

So if P3D really is the heir apparent to FSX, I believe this will create winners and losers. And the conduct we are witnessing today by add-on companies is going to help shape the landscape.

 

Just my two cents.

 

I would also add that it would be very helpful to the community to have a list of vendors that do and don't support P3D. I am talking about a list specifying the company's position on P3D, and not whether their products work or not in P3D.

Rob, I like it how you wrote your post - very carefully.

 

The thing is with P3D, it is and will stay a commercial product. Doesn't matter how you use it on your computer and what license you buy. The fact is, when you go over licensing and what licenses allow, the whole thing is starting to look very dark.

 

If LM ever manages to license P3D for private use, then we're gonna be talking.

 

Apparently Americans take the whole licensing things very serious, especially some companies, without naming names.

 

And putting that on the forums, makes them angry. What you do publicly concerns them, what you do inside of your 4 walls is your own thing (it's still wrong, but noone knows about it).

 

But I am all for it - a list of vendors openly supporting P3D would surely be of some benefit.

Well written. I do agree to you on Flight1's policies. We have to respect their business decisions because in the end they are the ones that have the real market data and sales.

 

Hopefully in the future, companies that are reluctant to move over can eventually accommodate this sim.

Build a really good flight simulator and they will come....

 

Lee

Moving from FSX to P3D forces me to look at each add-on, and determine which will work and which won't. As I believe P3D will ultimately become the sim most FSX users migrate to, I can't help notice the companies that are doing it right, and those making a big mistake.

 

Take FSDT, for example. I have every add-on airport from them, and they make top-quality products. What is their position on P3D? They have updated their installers so it detects if you have P3D, and then installs accordingly. If you bought their airports and previously activated them in FSX, everything works perfectly in P3D. And you can use the same airports in either sim. This is exactly the response I expected from them. I will buy whatever they make. FlightBeam and FlyTampa are similar.

 

REX would be a step down, but still good. If you bought REX Essentials, for an extra $5 you can get the P3D version activated. I took advantage of it, and do not feel negative towards them about it.

 

Then we have Flight1. For the record, they do not support P3D. This is very unfortunate, since I have several of their products. I can respect their decision not to support P3D, but believe that in the long run this could be a big mistake. I buy a lot of add-ons. I have the Mustang, and UT2. Since I now know their policy towards P3D, I won't be buying their products, even if I wanted them for FSX alone. Sorry, but there are just too many choices out their. I could spend the rest of my life with PMDG and Carenado planes.

 

So if P3D really is the heir apparent to FSX, I believe this will create winners and losers. And the conduct we are witnessing today by add-on companies is going to help shape the landscape.

 

Just my two cents.

 

I would also add that it would be very helpful to the community to have a list of vendors that do and don't support P3D. I am talking about a list specifying the company's position on P3D, and not whether their products work or not in P3D.

 

Maybe they know something you don't know or chose not to and that's why they won't support it, ever think about that?

Rob, I like it how you wrote your post - very carefully.

 

The thing is with P3D, it is and will stay a commercial product. Doesn't matter how you use it on your computer and what license you buy. The fact is, when you go over licensing and what licenses allow, the whole thing is starting to look very dark.

 

If LM ever manages to license P3D for private use, then we're gonna be talking.

 

Apparently Americans take the whole licensing things very serious, especially some companies, without naming names.

 

And putting that on the forums, makes them angry. What you do publicly concerns them, what you do inside of your 4 walls is your own thing (it's still wrong, but noone knows about it).

 

But I am all for it - a list of vendors openly supporting P3D would surely be of some benefit.

 

I have to give it to you Word Not Allowed, +1, that's what I like, straight to the point with no

All other issues aside, there is one extremely salient and critical point, which up until now has not been mentioned at all...

 

...and that is the very thorny issue of "liability exposure" for third-party vendors. Every FS developer of whom I'm aware makes it crystal clear that their aircraft package is for "entertainment use" exclusively. This limits their liability if the customer attempts to use their product for any other purpose, including real-world flight training, et cetera.

 

As a result then, here's the classic "Catch-22" of selling an "entertainment only" product for use with an exclusively "professional/student only" platform. If the developer sells the product for such a platform, they are essentially giving up the liability protection they need to maintain at all costs.

All other issues aside, there is one extremely salient and critical point, which up until now has not been mentioned at all...

 

...and that is the very thorny issue of "liability exposure" for third-party vendors. Every FS developer of whom I'm aware makes it crystal clear that their aircraft package is for "entertainment use" exclusively. This limits their liability if the customer attempts to use their product for any other purpose, including real-world flight training, et cetera.

 

As a result then, here's the classic "Catch-22" of selling an "entertainment only" product for use with an exclusively "professional/student only" platform. If the developer sells the product for such a platform, they are essentially giving up the liability protection they need to maintain at all costs.

 

Exactly right, my answer in post #5. now think about this, is making or updating installers for your "entertainment only" product to this platform not a bigger "Catch-22"....it's now "kinda" hard to deny the purpose of your actions regarding your "entertainment only" products, is in it?

Maybe they know something you don't know or chose not to and that's why they won't support it, ever think about that?

 

Actually, I did. But I have looked and can't find an explanation as to the WHY they won't support P3D. Can you point me to a post by them outlining the reasons why? I do, however, see posts from JIm R. stating that it is a violation of their EULA. And I am not arguing their right to do that. But I also think they can't have it both ways. If they have a valid reason for not supporting P3D (and I am sure they do) that is good to know. And we should have a sticky here that lists the position of each company (including Flight1) with regards to P3D. That way when purchasing add-ons, the consumer can decide if they want something that will not have P3D support down the road, should they ultimately decide to switch.

 

I like Flight1 products. But due to their lack of support for P3D, I just cannot justify purchasing any products from them. It's disappointing. And it is absolutely important information for consumers to have.

 

Rob, I like it how you wrote your post - very carefully.

 

The thing is with P3D, it is and will stay a commercial product. Doesn't matter how you use it on your computer and what license you buy. The fact is, when you go over licensing and what licenses allow, the whole thing is starting to look very dark.

 

If LM ever manages to license P3D for private use, then we're gonna be talking.

 

Apparently Americans take the whole licensing things very serious, especially some companies, without naming names.

 

And putting that on the forums, makes them angry. What you do publicly concerns them, what you do inside of your 4 walls is your own thing (it's still wrong, but noone knows about it).

 

But I am all for it - a list of vendors openly supporting P3D would surely be of some benefit.

 

I hear you Srdan. I was definitely trying to be careful about this. Look, I like F1 products. Top-shelf! I It's just unfortunate. Any chance we could start a list of companies showing support for P3D?

 

 

 

Exactly right, my answer in post #5. now think about this, is making or updating installers for your "entertainment only" product to this platform not a bigger "Catch-22"....it's now "kinda" hard to deny the purpose of your actions regarding your "entertainment only" products, is in it?

 

If we look at FSDT, for example, we are talking about airports. Not sure how that becomes a liability. I'm not saying it can't, but I don't see how. As far as aircraft go, having something on install related to "for entertainment purpose only" should do, and is on almost every a/c I have installed.

Can you point me to a post by them outlining the reasons why?

 

You may find your (or a part of it) answer here.. http://www.simforums...topic40652.html

without leting this drop into a discussion of the EULA and getting the thread closed - one thing I noticed that may be an out - the restriction is not in making a product that can be used for entertainment but in marketing and distributing the product through retail channels. Now we may be bandying words here but that's what EULA's are all about - specific wording. Hopefully Flight1 will find a way to release their products for P3d and still follow the spirit of the legal aspect. I don't like it but I also do respect their position. There are SO many variables and possible scenarios that it would be foolhardy to speculate on possibilities. However I will state that I too feel that P3D will be the sim of the future - I also predict that LM and MS will revise their agreement which will bring clarity to the situation.

 

Meanwhile, if I have purchased a product and I can adapt it to P3d, I will. But unless the developer specifically states no objection, I wll keep it to myself.

 

So a "compatibiliy" list is edgy - I would suggest a list of compatible addons by developers who ALLOW their use, else we open up a can of legal worms for developers and Avsim.

 

think patience

 

Vic

You may find your (or a part of it) answer here.. http://www.simforums...topic40652.html

 

I found some information helpful. Thanks.

 

So a "compatibiliy" list is edgy - I would suggest a list of compatible addons by developers who ALLOW their use, else we open up a can of legal worms for developers and Avsim.

 

I agree. A compatibility list by product would be a mistake. A list of companies that support P3D is all I asked for. I don't think companies should be able to have it both ways. If you are not going to support P3D, fine. Understood. Let's make sure consumers understand which companies do and do not support it, so they can decide where to spend their money.

Guys, re-read Bill's post carefully, it's not about you and what you will do with what you got...

 

Developers are assuming that you are using their products according to their licenses...and their license is for "entertainment only" unless you got a commercial 3PD product...= $$$$$,..... it can't be clearer than that.

My biggest worry is that Microsoft have now stopped making fsx gold dvd's ( if anyone knows someone at Microsoft can you please try to find out ), if they have stopped back at the beginning of this year or they plan to stop soon, there could be 5,000 or 500,000 new fsx disc's out there and they will dry up and it will be hard to come by new copies of fsx, while this wont stop addon development it can cause a slow down as all publishers and developers need new customers as well as the existing ones. We don't want addons to become expensive due to any possible drop off in sales over the years as people do leave the sim and people do have times when money might be tight and i believe all developers and publishers should plan for the future and that would includes making aircraft for X-Plane.

 

I do feel that Flight1 is not thinking to far ahead which is a shame as adding compatibility of their current catalogue im sure wont be to hard but we must respect the choice they have made even if the worse case scenario happens with new fsx dvd's.

 

With some addons i don't have issues with paying a small fee to add compatibility and Rex could of done a standalone REX p3d if they wished which would of meant buying again, The rex textures are some of the best if not they are the best that i have seen and they have changed the way i sim to the point where i could not go back to stock. While some have not charged to convert im sure as time goes on others could and will. I don't mind this to much as we need to show our support to developers who allow us to use the addons they create for us in p3d and a couple of dollars/euro's/pounds here and there wont be missed by most of us as we probably spend more money on aircraft we don't fly. Not everyone can do free.

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