Hello, As a rule I dont fly long haul but out of curiosity I downloaded a route from EGPF-KJFK using the 737-800. The max. range is 3115nm but the route milage was 3211nm. This means the route is longer than the range thereby making ETOPS useless but ETOPS is a facility withing the aircraft which can be selected. Its my understanding that in this situation an alternative airport stop would be required to upload extra fuel. Am I right in this analysis or have I missed something. Richard Welsh.

I would suggest Shannon (EINN) to JFK would be a better ETOPS route. You need to have divert fuel etc when you reach your destination so the route you have would not be suitable unless a fuel stop was planned in Canada en route. Google ETOPs operation and you will find some good information regarding procedure, diversion fields and how the smaller aircraft are adapted. Also see the Just Planes Air Canada A319 video just released on a Toronto to London flight via St Johns.

 

Richard

ETOPS isn't "equipment" per say that extends the physical limits of the aircraft. A 737-800 and a 737-800ETOPS are the same aircraft and bulit of the same components, its just that ETOPS craft has been certified for single engine operation to a diversion airport up to 180 minutes away. These certifications range in minutes from 120 to 330 and require the flight crew and aircraft to be certified under special rules such as routing/planning or additional checklists that must be performed during the flight. For example, the 787 is currently certified to 330 minutes as well as boeing's complete line of 777's. The selection of ETOPS on the NGX menu simply places the "certification" sticker in the flight deck. But as far as gaining extra distance or carrying extra fuel...this option doesn't change that. You can read more about ETOPS on wikipedia. It has some good information on ratings and procedures!

 

Dan Burke

It might be a question of "equipment" in some cases though. Not every nonETOPS plane can gain ETOPS sticker.

 

Otherwise I agree.

ETOPS isn't "equipment" per say that extends the physical limits of the aircraft. A 737-800 and a 737-800ETOPS are the same aircraft and bulit of the same components, its just that ETOPS craft has been certified for single engine operation to a diversion airport up to 180 minutes away. These certifications range in minutes from 120 to 330 and require the flight crew and aircraft to be certified under special rules such as routing/planning or additional checklists that must be performed during the flight. For example, the 787 is currently certified to 330 minutes as well as boeing's complete line of 777's. The selection of ETOPS on the NGX menu simply places the "certification" sticker in the flight deck. But as far as gaining extra distance or carrying extra fuel...this option doesn't change that. You can read more about ETOPS on wikipedia. It has some good information on ratings and procedures!

 

Dan Burke

 

Actually, selecting ETOPS option on the NGX, may not add extra range, but it adds some more equipment to make the plane ETOPS certifiable, like extra batteries, more fire suppression abilities etc. For e.g. i think the standard fire suppression equipment suppresses fire for about 120 minutes, with ETOPS option that is extended to about 180 if i am not mistaken.

ETOPS doesn't improve fuel/payload capacity in any way. In your case, you would need to stop over somewhere and pick up some fuel.

 

ETOPS certification just allows a certain aircraft to fly greater than 60 minutes away from adequate airports.

 

Mike McKenna

ETOPS isn't mileage - it's minutes.

If you want to know mileage you need plotting charts, not enroute charts. We use them at work to plot the route and cross check what our system calculated to see if the route falls within required ETOPS circles. Usually on the left side of a plotting map you’ll see AOA scale. It will give you approximate idea how many miles you will travel based on ETOPS time. Mileage is not the same, for example if you go on 180mins ETOPS for 737-800 it will be 1252 nm, for 900 it will be 1234nm. Also if your NG is ETOPS certified it does not mean you can go on ETOPS wherever you want, certain tails may be certified in US but not certify for European ETOPS. We have flights operating from US west coast to Honolulu (757) and they are 180 ETOPS certified but they cannot operate in European ETOPS airspace (there are certain requirements). And Scandinavian13 is right, basically you need minutes, mileage is helpful if you want to build a route and want to know if your ETOPS alternates fall witting 180mins or 75 mins circle (usually in Caribbean airspace). And also if you go on ETOPS it does not mean you will be in ETOPS airspace the entire trip. Your flight time could be 7 hours but ETOPS portion of this trip may be for just 3-4 hours. So NG max range is not a factor here.

Hello all,

 

The easyest way to plan ETOPS is using the ETOPS maps 120,180, etc. which basically, for a given type willl have circles drawn from all possible alternates like airports close to shore around the Northern Atlantic for example. In planning, you must always be within these surfaces inside the circles. If the middle of the ocean is not covered by say 120 minutes circles, you cannot go there.

 

Ionut "John" Micu

Can someone post a map of this from the uk to the east coast of America giving a rough idea of where it could reach never crossed the pond in my 737-800 but might give it a go like if I had more information about my other airports I could need to use.

 

 

 

Many thanks

Rob lambert

I'll give you one better:

http://gc.kls2.com/

 

You can do your own now.

Hello all,

 

Great find Kyle, thank you for sharing.

 

Rob, why don't you plan a light load Boston to Dublin? This should be well within the ETOPS range and you can do it without fuel stopover given the tailwind...

 

In reality there are regular flights on 320/737 but they are in business only config - aka light weight.

 

Ionut "John" Micu

Great find Kyle, thank you for sharing.

 

You're welcome. Used it all the time in college when flying the 744.

It looks like this map, 75 mins ETOPS. This is not UK (Caribbean). We have plotting charts for the whole world but not on all of them circles are shown. If I find anything for UK, I will let you know.

 

Sorry. Here is again