Can we pilot a real 737 if we can

[OzWhitey 3,353]

No simulator replaces the 'real thing', it simulates it (hence the name, of course).

 

As to stress levels - well, depends on the sim and how you use it. I read a recent study on sim training for anaesthetic nurses in the OR. They quantified stress levels by measuring the level of cortisol in their spit both in the sim and in real life. The simulated experience actually produced more stress than the real experience!

 

A commercial pilot being assessed in a simulator also experiences significant stress.

 

As for FSX, I think it depends on how you use it - how immersed you let yourself get. I've tried landing the NGX with failures operating and on reserve fuel, in awful weather. After coming in too high and having to go around...my cortisol would definitely been up. I was trying everything in my power to troubleshoot, navigate and get the plane on the ground.

[Humpty 751]

It will not simulate everything which everyone knows and agrees, as I said using a simulator to perform or learn procedures and of course with certain FSX aircrafts one can learn to fly the aircraft in a sim , there's a wide road between your pulses racing in RL and on an armchair.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

Sure, and as I said with the 'right' sim your pulse (or cortisol level) can be just as high as with a real emergency.

 

Of course, if you're thinking of yourself sitting in an armchair - you haven't achieved the suspension of disbelief necessary to get any sort of physiological response.

[Humpty 751]

 

Of course, if you're thinking of yourself sitting in an armchair - you haven't achieved the suspension of disbelief necessary to get any sort of physiological response.

 

Lol you are still in a virtual environment .

[Rations 102]

not just for 'heavy' aircraft either ... so long as ATC & airspace can accommodate/allow.

Yes, but allowance to exceed the 250/10000 "limit" is almost always the case for heavy-enough aircraft, but only sometimes the case with ATC permission. I never said aircraft not heavy enough could never exceed the "limit".

[19AB67 16]

I have seen in a short documentary that a flight simmer was given the chance to land in a real DLH simulator at EDDL/DUS.

He was put 30nm away offset from 23R in a clean setup, and he managed to land the 737 savely.

Ok, weather was set not too harsh, but after all he had to cope with different feeling of a real yoke etc.

 

I had the opportunity to 'fly' a DLH 340 mock up, ie. the real cockpit, but not on telescope legs. The side stick was amazingly stiff. Thinking to hand-fly a longer time ...

[Rations 102]

ie. the real cockpit, but not on telescope legs. The side stick was amazingly stiff. Thinking to hand-fly a longer time ...

Such was my experience in an A320 fixed-base simulator. I thought my Logitech joystick was stiff in comparison to the Saitek X-52, but the one in the simulator was very stiff.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I like simming because it allows me to remain tied to my USAF roots, and when simming, I fly it based on what the RL requirements are (>250KIAS below FL010, don't taxi over 20 kts, etc).

 

Careful—while I get what you are trying to say, heavy aircraft with minimum clean speeds over 250 KT are permitted to exceed the 250/10000 speed limit. You can also taxi over 20 KT in appropriate circumstances (e.g., long, straight taxiways).

 

I was wondering when 'FS'ism #1' would rear it's ugly head in this discussion ..... no offence intended but ....

 

I'm sure everyone knows that this is one of my number 1 aggravations around the sim, but I want to make sure that this is fully and 100% clear:

 

In the United States, FAR 91.117 dictates aircraft speed and sets multiple speed limits. The most well-known is the 250/10000 restriction, with exceptions listed in (d. That (d exception states that "if the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed." Because (d states that the restriction is waived in that case, you do not need to request this from ATC if you are in an aircraft where your minimum safe airspeed is above 250 knots.

 

If you doubt me, you may also look at the controller's "FARs," which are known as the 7110.65:

5-7-2 Note 1: "A pilot operating at or above 10,000 feet MSL on an assigned speed adjustment greater than 250 knots is expected to comply with 14 CFR Section 91.117(a) when cleared below 10,000 feet MSL, within domestic airspace, without notifying ATC. Pilots are expected to comply with the other provisions of 14 CFR Section 91.117 without notification."

 

 

 

Beyond that, unless someone can point me to a taxi speed limit in the FARs, I'm not sure where the 20 knots came from. Taxi speed limits can be found elsewhere, but are not nationally regulated. They may be found in FCTMs as limits on the aircraft, in airline SOPs as limits on the operator, and occasionally in the A/FD as limits at that airport. The AIM and other manuals also reference taxi speed, but none of those are regulatory in nature.

[EGLL77W 1,508]

If you listen to London Control - you'll hear "No ATC Speed Restriction" a lot; mostly after departure.

 

If I recall they're fairly strict with 250 or below at FL100- here in LA. The LA Class Bravo and surrounding airspace is packed!

 

I'm sure ATC would lift it in an emergency, since the aircraft in distress would get right of way from everyone else.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

If you listen to London Control - you'll hear "No ATC Speed Restriction" a lot; mostly after departure.

 

Different rules over there. They may have a similar limit, but the way the system operates is different. My references above are US-only.

 

If I recall they're fairly strict with 250 or below at FL100- here in LA. The LA Class Bravo and surrounding airspace is packed!

 

I'm sure ATC would lift it in an emergency, since the aircraft in distress would get right of way from everyone else.

 

Speed restrictions set by ATC are completely different. A controller may say "maintain 180 knots or less until 5 mi final," or similar, and the pilot should comply. If not, the pilot must say unable, but a speed restriction like that is close enough in that they'd be dropping flap anyway.

 

Again, though, if you're an aircraft with a min safe airspeed of above 250 knots, you do not need to request permission to exceed the rule, you do not need to notify ATC, and you will not be contacted by the FAA regarding the issue. If a controller makes a reference to it, you should call the facility and speak with a supervisor. Make note of 91.117(d and the 7110.65 5-7-2 Note 1. End of story.

 

In an emergency, ATC has no discretion in the matter, really. A controller may mention that the pilot has no speed restrictions, but the end rule for the pilot rests with 91.3:

 

"In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency."

(That includes the 91.117 speed restrictions)

 

Remember, there are people all over in positions of power who don't know everything that they should. You'll hear the speed restriction rule misquoted all over the place by professional pilots, lower time pilots, controllers, and occasionally FAA officials all too often. The FAA has a few pages of FAQs that occasionally finish with the line "If you, as an FAA Safety Inspector, Designated Pilot Examiner, Flight Instructor, or other aviation professional are telling pilots something other than the foregoing then you are incorrect," because they are so often misquoted.

 

 

 

It's not FL100-, by the way. That's 100,000 feet, and the transition level here in the States is 18,000. Anything under that is just the stated altitude: 10,000. :wink:

[BimmerCop 332]

Google is such a versatile tool... lmao

 

- Sent from my rooted, Verizon Samsung Galaxy Nexus LTE smartphone via Tapatalk because haters gonna hate.

 

 

[Vargveum 53]

t's not FL100-, by the way. That's 100,000 feet

 

Errrr... wrong. FL100 = 10 000 ft (where the TA is below 10 000 ft, of course)

[Swofford 155]

 

 

Errrr... wrong. FL100 = 10 000 ft (where the TA is below 10 000 ft, of course)

 

Considering he's discussing US procedures he's 100 percent correct.

[Great Ozzie 101]

Errrr... wrong. FL100 = 10 000 ft (where the TA is below 10 000 ft, of course)

 

Yeah and just pointing something out to the Luke P. - Flight Levels begin at the Transition Altitude (Altimeter reset to 29.92)... in the U.S. that is 18,000ft. Much lower and varies in many cases around the world. That is why, in part imo, there is some confusion.

 

If I recall they're fairly strict with 250 or below at FL100- here in LA.

 

see above.

 

 

Considering he's discussing US procedures he's 100 percent correct.

 

No... incorrect use of FL... Daniel (the Vargveum) is correct.

 

Google is such a versatile tool... lmao

 

Makes everyone and their brother (& sister) an expert. :Big Grin:

[Swofford 155]

FL100 in the United States would be 100,000 feet. 10,000 feet is 10,000 feet.