What is missing in this discussion is how much knowledge real-life pilots have to master compared to what is needed to land an airliner under good weather conditions. Just taking into account all the altitude and speed restrictions near airports, not to mention taking into account training for the most extreme equipment failures require years of training, and are difficult to master even in a simulator, and not to forget avoiding hard landings and so on. But for the question discussed (amateur landing an airliner), much less knowledge is required, and ALL that is required is to land the aircraft so that everyone survives. I am not a real pilot so I don't have any answers, but it seems to me that if the pilot can hit the runway at a speed within the margins and with enough runway length, he would be considered to have succeeded. So what if the wheels are damaged and the tail has scraped the runway?

 

Henri

 

For me, the important thing is to know the actual limitations of the simulation - which helps prevent you from learning bad habits. People say "flight simmers do x wrong". I suggest that is not a problem of the simulator - it's a problem with how the user is using the simulator.

 

From my own sim and real world experience I agree with this statement 100%. It really depends on a) understanding the limitations of sims for what they are. B) Using the simulator intelligently given an understanding of the limitations.

 

The old 'flight simmers look too much at the instruments' line I heard from every instructor I had who knew I had sim experience. None ever pulled me up on that whilst flying VFR for real though, simply because a lot of the time I was flying the sim from the VC using outside visual reference and minimal reference to instruments.

 

Interestingly though when I did the IMC part of the training, reverting back to early days on sims, it was surprisingly comfortable so doing the very basic IMC exercises was not too much of a strain at all.

 

I can't find the link at the moment but I was reading a thread from a RW airline pilot regarding his experiences of second officers with only sim experience of certain approaches. Despite having 'shot the approach' many times in sims, they had huge difficulties flying it the first time for real.

 

I might only pilot little aeroplanes, but to me comparing landing a Level D sim with being in the air misses one very important point. The real world is significantly different to any sim, in my own humble opinion I would think the vast majority of people would find the difference totally overwhelming with no real world flight training.

Using the spoilers to "assist" the ailerons would only be active at low speeds say below 250kts. The pilot would not be able to select/deselect the facility. The VC10 was I think the first airliner to use that system. It works perfectly on that a/c.

I personally look forward to the day when aliens invade and the President asks for pilot experience so I can fly an F-18. That's just me though.

I personally look forward to the day when aliens invade and the President asks for pilot experience so I can fly an F-18. That's just me though.

 

No joke! Might even be more likely than a NGX simmer saving the day following some bad sushi on the flight deck. ^_^

My guess is if I got long time to chech fmc settings on a 747, guided instructions I would be able to autoland in cat3 landing strip if all depended on me. But if that was the scenario I guess all other circumstances would be ###### also so I prefer fatal error in FSX rather in a real 747

 

No joke! Might even be more likely than a NGX simmer saving the day following some bad sushi on the flight deck. ^_^

 

Ha! I was actually thinking about what the probablity of this was. Cases which needed or almost needed a simmer that spring to mind - the Helios crash in Greece, the Aloha incident (crew asked pax if anyone could fly - i know, you would have been disappointed once you got into the cockpit) and that british flight where the pilot ended getting sucked out of the cockpit (with more windshield damage you might have got the callup).

 

My carefully calculated stats tell me that based on my flying profile the chances of me getting a shot at this are around 1:120,000,000.

 

So...my interest in this is not from a practical perspective, it is purely from the point of view of how realistic a tool modern computer-based flight simulation can be. This includes the limitations of the current technology - and how these problems can be ameliorated.

 

 

Talking of emergency , but does anyone know the first rules of flying ? there are 3 rules of flying. the steps you have to take when in an emergency arises.

 

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Talking of emergency , but does anyone know the first rules of flying ? there are 3 rules of flying. the steps you have to take when in an emergency arises.

 

.

 

Aviate Navigate Communicate

 

or my own preferred version of four

 

Aviate Navigate Investigate Communicate

 

(No point calling an engine failure on the radio if you could have restarted it!)

 

I'd 'know exactly where the aircraft would be' - look at the ND and the legs or progress page of the FMC. I'm not aware of any sim limitation in this regard. Anyway, that's 'navigate', and it could wait.

 

I wouldn't immediately divert - I'd get the plane flying level, get the mcp set, check that we're clear of terrain.

 

Once I was 'aviating' I'd start 'communicating' - asking for as much help as I could get.

 

The 'only rotate and brake' comment is actually how I would approach things. Because I don't have any RW 737 stick time I think the safest approach is to use the MCP for anything I can.

 

 

... from earlier in the thread

Aviate Navigate Communicate

 

 

 

Correct.

 

The rule of the thumb.

Correct.

 

The rule of the thumb.

 

My personal favourite is for SEP engine failure P-A-N-I-C-S Pitch, Aviate, Navigate, Investigate, Communicate, Secure,

My personal favourite is for SEP engine failure P-A-N-I-C-S Pitch, Aviate, Navigate, Investigate, Communicate, Secure,

 

Are you a RL Pilot ?

I love this stuff!

 

For what it's worth, I bought the Sporty's 'Learn to fly' app for the ipad today - to see what pearls of wisdom might be hidden away in there. So far, a couple of hours of video in - lots of good diagrams, explainations and wisdom for anyone who wants to refresh (or learn) their BAK.

If both pilots are incapacitated the Royal air Force have the problem solved!:-