Hi Howard.

Yes this is an option that you can change 'on the fly' as well as the ability to hand flaps, spoilers, gear, coms etc.

It's easy peasy to set up a flight and Pro-AtcX can be started quickly with just a click of a button with what appears to me as no impact on my system, unlike other ATC addons.

Hi Jim, hope you had a good Christmas. Thanks for the info, but you talk a lot about the co-pilot dealing with the ATC, but presumably this is an option?

 

Yes, that is an option! I've been using FS2Crew since a week or so and I have turned all the co-pilot stuff off.

 

About trying it with a default plane first, as Jim suggested: after figuring out how everything works (see my tutorial) I had no problems doing my very first flight in the PMDG 737 NGX with FS2Crew and ProATC/X! So in the end, when you've got everything set up, it's all pretty easy. A lot like default FSX but with nice additional options. You certainly don't need to look at hours of tutorials. As I said I got it working without a manual (since I couldn't find one).

 

I do agree that the price is very high. Of course you also pay for the co-pilot stuff but since I use FS2Crew I don't use that and so I payed for something I don't use... Luckily I had some money lying around...

 

Things I like so far about ProATC/X:

 

- very easy and clear flightplanner.

 

- I specially like the fact you only have to choose the end of a SID and the start of a STAR and then a SID and STAR is assigned to you by ATC at the appropriate time: very realistic!

 

- you can choose those end of the SID and start of the STAR with a dropdownmenu but when you click on it you can quickly scroll through all availabe start and end points and you will immediately see how that influenced the flightplan. The ease with which I can now use SIDs and STARs in FSX alone is almost worth the money (well...). I used FSC just for that up to now but it still always gave me problems...

 

- I like the (apparently new) in flight menu which shows you the cruise alt, currently assigned alt, assigned SID and STAR (only after they have been assigned)

 

- I like it that when you are handed off to another controller and you forgot the frequency the previous controller repeats it for you.

 

- no more constant switching between controllers!

 

- no more flying all over the bloody country to get vectored to the runway (I've only finished one flight and it followed the programmed flight up to the end!)

 

- no need to open the ATC window to acknowledge something (just press 2)

 

Of course I am very new to it all so there may be more nice things, but I like it so far!

 

O, one thing though...

 

with what appears to me as no impact on my system, unlike other ATC addons.

 

It seems that on my PC performance really takes a big hit... Now I don't really care about that when flying the 737 NGX (smoothness and fluidity is more important when handlfying GA) but still, the hit is a lot larger then I expected and things do het very stuttery here and there when I look around. But that's the only drawback so far. Well, come to think of it: in my first flight I had to fly the STAR to the letter until the end and not every STAR ligns you up nicely with the runway: I was expecting vector for that but didn't get any. I will have to see how this goes in my next flights.

An awesome tutorial Jeroen. Couldn't have organized it better. The features forum has a lot of good info in it too as you learn how to use this program.

 

 

I got his Ultimate collection but now see he has a special edition just for ProATC-X so I would get the edit. ProATC comes with background ATC for Europe so all you would need is the USA background ATC. Glad to see the developer of RealATC set up a special program for ProATC.

 

Best regards,

Jim

Thanks for the info Jim.

 

Regards,

HOLD THE PRESS. My second flight went utterly wrong.

 

Quite a while before the calculated TOD I was ordered to descent to 5000 feet. No problem. When I was almost at 11000 (coming from 21000) I was told to climb to FL150... Er...? Okay, so I did. After that I contacted the controller a few times with a request to initialize the descent. All he said was Climb to FL150. So I waited and waited and waited... nothing. And just now, a few miles out from my destination, the controller told me to intercept the ILS... at my current altitide... which is FL150. Crap. Time to visit the official support forum, I guess...

 

Yes, I of course could have descended and land at my own discretion, but I didn't pay 50 euro's for that. ^_^ To be continued, hopefully!

 

Oh, and btw, as I said, in my first fligh I simply had to fly to the end of the STAR and there I was told to intercept the ILS: this led me into a very steep curve... I would have expected (and liked) vectors, really. Does ProATC/X do vectors...? I'd hope so! The path I had to follow (and this is the same for my last flight) doesn't look like those real world flights where you get vectored (by flying a nice wide circle) into a nice position for the runway: the STAR simply gets connected with an approach fix and that's it, so it seems.

 

Another thing: I thought ProATC/X did take a note of the AI? I had to land while another plane was taking off: he went right through me. Hm....... ProATC/X clearly is a work in progress.

HOLD THE PRESS. My second flight went utterly wrong.

 

Quite a while before the calculated TOD I was ordered to descent to 5000 feet. No problem. When I was almost at 11000 (coming from 21000) I was told to climb to FL150... Er...? Okay, so I did. After that I contacted the controller a few times with a request to initialize the descent. All he said was Climb to FL150. So I waited and waited and waited... nothing. And just now, a few miles out from my destination, the controller told me to intercept the ILS... at my current altitide... which is FL150. Crap. Time to visit the official support forum, I guess...

 

Yes, I of course could have descended and land at my own discretion, but I didn't pay 50 euro's for that. ^_^ To be continued, hopefully!

 

Oh, and btw, as I said, in my first fligh I simply had to fly to the end of the STAR and there I was told to intercept the ILS: this led me into a very steep curve... I would have expected (and liked) vectors, really. Does ProATC/X do vectors...? I'd hope so! The path I had to follow (and this is the same for my last flight) doesn't look like those real world flights where you get vectored (by flying a nice wide circle) into a nice position for the runway: the STAR simply gets connected with an approach fix and that's it, so it seems.

 

Another thing: I thought ProATC/X did take a note of the AI? I had to land while another plane was taking off: he went right through me. Hm....... ProATC/X clearly is a work in progress.

 

The climb to an altitude even though you should b on descent happens to me too but I found out is because I missed a waypoint or wasn't close enough. I believe it was close to destination. So check from time to time on the menu if you we're to ask for a "direct to" waypoint to ensure your both on same page.

 

There is an option to follow the AI for the runway. That way your aligned with them. Unfortunately AI don't always choose the right runway for winds. I think that's an Fsx issue controlling AI. There stupider than the tires on tarmac.

 

I've gotten vectors before but they are sometimes off or not a very good guidance so I kind of do it myself. This is improving and will be sure to be Better.

Hope that answers some.

 

 

The climb to an altitude even though you should b on descent happens to me too but I found out is because I missed a waypoint or wasn't close enough. I believe it was close to destination. So check from time to time on the menu if you we're to ask for a "direct to" waypoint to ensure your both on same page.

 

There is an option to follow the AI for the runway. That way your aligned with them. Unfortunately AI don't always choose the right runway for winds. I think that's an Fsx issue controlling AI. There stupider than the tires on tarmac.

 

I've gotten vectors before but they are sometimes off or not a very good guidance so I kind of do it myself. This is improving and will be sure to be Better.

Hope that answers some.

 

I already read somewhere about missing waypoints and hence not being on the same page so I did keep an eye on that but afaik that wasn't it. On the ProATC/X forum this is confirmed as being a bit wrong and it's apparently taken care off in the next version.

 

I also noticed that option to align with the AI but that has to do with using the same runway, I think. Not with AI being in front of you. This happened during the landing of my 3rd flight: doesn't seem quite right. ATC didn't mind at all though.

 

 

About the vectors... I am disappointed about those. I was hoping to be vectored from the end of the STAR to the IAF but ProATC/X simply tells you to go there yourself.

During my last flight I was told to intercept the ILS when I arrived at the end of the STAR. This was at a point where I still had some 35 nm to fly!!! And I was flying with a heading that forced me to do a steep turn to intercept that radial! (See screenshot below.) I don't know too much about it but I don't think real life ATC would handle this situation this way...? Does that look like a real life approach? Again, this is disappointing. ProATC simply lets you fly the STAR and then straight to the IAF, no matter what... Heck, even default FSX ATC does this a LOT better (positioning the plane in a good position to intercept the ILS: it sucks at the rest, of course).

 

 

Well, hold it, I almost forgot: I DID get ONE vector shortly after taking this screenshot. When I was closing in on INN10 at a heading of 103 (so towards that steep turn) ATC vectored me to a heading of 105... Almost the same as I was flying but making the turn even steeper...! Again, not what I was expecting or hoping for.

 

Another slight disappointment: there is an option to let ProATC/X show you the way to the runway (because there is no progressive taxi). However, that option doesn't seem to be doing anything. When I asked about this on the forum I was told to use the map. Not ideal since I don't fly in windowed mode... But well, I am considering getting GSX so that may solve that problem. Until then I simply park at the gate that's closest.

 

I am glad this addon is being worked on constantly and support seems to be lively: I still have high hopes for the future. But as it is now and also if you don't use or need the co pilot function (for which I use FS2Crew) I don't really know if ProATC/X is worth the very high price. Half of that price would be more appropriate imho. Also considering the things I mentioned earlier (no manual, no 'getting started', etc.) I am in the fortunate situation that I don't have to think too hard about every purchase I make otherwise I wouldn't be totally happy. But still partially happy... ^_^

 

EDIT

On the other hand... it's rather funny: one of the reasons I bought this addon was because I wanted to fly with ATC but not to be bothered with it CONSTANTLY like default FSX ATC does (handing you over to other controllers all the freaking time and letting you fly all over the place). ProATC does that a lot better, so much better that you only hear it when really needed... and that's a lot less then FSX ATC and hence you tend to think 'So I paid all that money just to hear less...?' B) :lol:

I also noticed that option to align with the AI but that has to do with using the same runway, I think. Not with AI being in front of you.

 

AI are controlled by FSX and not by PRO ATC is my understanding. I get this as well. not realistic at all, but its a combination of my traffic program and FSX/P3d. Hope proatc will control AI in the future.

 

Like I said the vectoring is not perfect and sometimes just stupid to do and wouldnt be done in real life, but that kind of beta testing of checking every airport would take a long time.

You might want to make sure your on the latest version of course and every update I import the AIRAC once again and then rebuild the scenery and then most importantly align the scenery or else this will be even more likely to happen.

 

As for taxiing, well the moving map is good for reference, but for myself I like to keep things real, and ATC expect you to know where to go because there is airport and taxi maps that you should be following, so thats what I try to do , and im not worried about a needle pointer. IMHO

 

Agreed its very expensive, but perhaps it will be worth the price after the finished product. But what ATC program out there do you know being actively developed and very committed not to mention getting support within a day if not within hours. I think in the flight simming community that is worth a price to pay in itself as it seems to be somewhat the exception rather than a rule.

Hmmm, still talk of bugs and then talk from Jeroen of a framerate hit (this I will not tolerate) all for 50euros... ??? I think I'll wait... BTW, how does it deal with ATC vectoring you into a large airport. Does it do this or are you simply expected to fly a star. This is important, as I enjoy using the VRinsight MCP to change course and my altitudes.

Yes, you might better wait a little... But keep a close eye on it!

 

About vectors: up to now I simply have to fly the STAR and all ATC ever tells me is a new altitude. After the STAR I am simply told to intercept the ILS, no matter where I am in regard to the ILS or how far it is...

 

I also posted this on the official forum and there I was told the next version should be better at this. I will keep you posted.

Hmmm, still talk of bugs and then talk from Jeroen of a framerate hit (this I will not tolerate) all for 50euros... ??? I think I'll wait... BTW, how does it deal with ATC vectoring you into a large airport. Does it do this or are you simply expected to fly a star. This is important, as I enjoy using the VRinsight MCP to change course and my altitudes.

 

I havnt noticed a frame rate hit much at all. At the most maybe 1 or 2. It will use CPU resources quite a bit because of all the voices, but if you have a decent rig, it all should handle it. If my scenery is messed up that will affect my FPS alot.

Hi Jim, hope you had a good Christmas. Thanks for the info, but you talk a lot about the co-pilot dealing with the ATC, but presumably this is an option?

 

That's correct Howard. It's an option. You can have the co-pilot doing everything or just a couple of things like raising/lowering the gear.

 

Had a great Christmas! Happy New Year!

 

Best regards,

Jim

Bummer... the advice to use the map to find my way on the airport is useless because I now see the runways aren't numbered in any way. So I have no clue where to go. So I decided to call default FSX ATC (which is NOT what I bought ProATC/X for) and to my surprise they told me runway 27 was the active one... while ProATC/X told me to use 9. So I looked at the weather and I found out the wind was coming from 240. So default FSX ATC doesn't only do a better job on vectoring you to the ILS, they also know better which runway should be used.

 

Up to now all that ProATC/X is giving me is advice on SIDs and STARs (nice) and which altitude to use... I am liking it less and less.

Up to now all that ProATC/X is giving me is advice on SIDs and STARs (nice) and which altitude to use... I am liking it less and less.

 

Make sure you check the Log Events in the options menu. This will provide the developer the information required to find out what you did wrong or whether a fix is required. Hopefully you will continue to post at the ProATC forum about your issues and send in the appropriate log.txt.

 

In regards to AI on the runway when landing, this is a known problem and it will be fixed. I use the freeware AI Smooth which puts all AI in a holding pattern until I land or takeoff. It also keeps the AI out of my way on the ground. It would be nice to see something like this in ProATC as I do not think it is realistic at all to be told to go-around. I've said this several years ago and got scolded but I strongly believe FSX is programmed to place AI on the runway or setup to place aircraft in front of mine. I've seen several instances where I'll have no aircraft in front of me as I near landing on runway 28L at KSFO and suddenly an AI will pop up on the right and make a sharp turn in front of me and onto the runway. Not realistic at all. This is how I learned about AI Smooth as it prevents this garbage.

 

For many of the airports I use, I go into Data then Airports and edit the airport info and turn off certain runways for landing or takeoff. Like the default ATC, many times ProATC sends me to the furthest runway possible from my gate location. My virtual passengers cannot handle that as they want to get to their destination as quickly as possible as a storm is brewing so I set it up for a nearby runway for departure. Works great!

 

Best regards,

Jim

I think I am done with this addon for now. I already read somewhere that if ATC doesn't contact you anymore you probably missed a waypoint. Say what?!? What does that tell me? That tells me ATC doesn't really follow me but I have to make sure myself that I stick to my route otherwise they lose me. But isn't that the job of ATC...?!?!?

In my current flight I decided to stray of my route to see what happened. Default FSX ATC would contact me within no time to tell me to get back on track. ProATC/X said nothing and let me wander off and I haven't heard of them ever since. What crap is that. This isn't ATC.

And btw while default FSX ATC actually TRIES to control air traffic (at which it fails but when you have a plane on the taxiway before you, you can hear it having contact with ATC) ProATC/X controls nothing at all: it only guides your own plane along the predefined route. That's also no ATC. And certainly not Pro.

 

Sorry for being a bit (?) negative but I am done alpha-testing 50 euro's worth of wavs. Let me know when this addon really works and I will give it another try.

Interesting observations, Jeroen. I unfortunately am somewhat ruined from enjoying a computerized ATC having flown many IFR flights in RL, (in the Denver area, usually through the Class Bravo), due to the limits that a software generated ATC uses. (I have programmed some MSFS "ATC" for a third party application way back in 1996 with a very basic form of APLC- you would need to be a "dinosaur" like me to know what that and Windows 95 is/was- and I have not kept up with the later software tools due to lack of time in my real job).

 

With that all said, I have always thought that the default FSX ATC does an amazing job, controlling AI and also somewhat aware of the terrain, as well as winds and beng able to vector (albeit you get a "world tour" during the vectors to final). So it doesn't surprise me that this new addon has trouble with what to do if it perceives that a flight plan waypoint was never crossed, as waypoint crossing is the only way it knows where you are and what to do next- essentially waypoint crossing becomes the eyes/ears/radar for the "ATC".

 

From what I have read here in this and other threads, ProATC is fast becoming a real contender for FSX ATC. I will probably buy it, although the "FS" budget is somewhat dented after Christmas (we have also bought a new car, which is going to be fun). Waypoint crossing, and the subsequent recognition by the software of which leg you are on- and therefore what to do with you, has always been an issue with "software ATC". I hope that those who already have it can stay with this add-on and help the developer enhance the situational awareness of where you are..... and if somehow it gets to be able to control AI as well, it would be great.

 

Looking forward to more reports on this interesting software addon. I did see a question earlier in this thread regarding whether you could "resume" a flight using ATC. My flying time in the evenings afetr work is often limited to less than an hour- that includes powering on the PC- so I love practicing approaches with different weather scenarios from saved situations (especially with the higher quality airctaft addons that offer full retrieval of systems and settings), and having an "ATC" that could pick my flight back up from a saved position would be really cool. The Elite simulator offers "approach only" ATC for selected airports in the US, and picks up from a consistent position and does well with controlling the aircraft from there in varying weather- but no AI......

 

We always moan about the very legacy status of FSX and how it has been left behind by other applications- but a side benefit from no new MS flight sims is the fact that developers can now spend literally years developing really first class software that otherwise would have been obsolete by successive versions of FS...... hopefully Pro ATC will be one of these journeys...

 

Thanks, Bruce.