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VeryBumpy

Capturing the localizer - Concorde X

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Gah. So many terms and numbers.

 

How do you capture the localizer in this plane? I'm just flying and randomly picking a nearby airport to land at with ILS. Trying to understand the ILS procedure in this plane. I set the runway ILS frequency in Nav1 and steady cruise at about 3000ft heading at a mild angle towards the runway but nothing ever happens. The plane never seems to pickup and align itself to the runway.

 

I've watched dozens of videos but they are all modern tubeliners.

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Is there a general figure of how close you have to be to the airport to catch the ILS signal?

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Hey, finally got one but it didn't land so well. Pretty much way overshot the runway. I was at 3000ft when the plane turned right to head towards the runway. Surprised it didn't cancel the landing when it past over the ILS? It just kept landing but way into the shrubs.

jkaywRgImi9uJ.jpg

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At 64 tonnes, 250kts and with an intercept angle of nearly 90 degrees, the real one would have done the same.

 

Read the tutorial.

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It's the usual story! "why can't I capture the ILS?" I don't know how many threads there have been with that title and nine times out of ten it's because you are going tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fast!

As above "read" the manuel.

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In real life, ATC won't give you an intercept angle (course) of more than 30 degrees... so that's what you want to aim for when you "self-vector." Also 250... lol... that's pretty fast. In Concorde I'd shoot for 180-200...

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Speed 190 to 200 Knots.

Intercept angle 30 to 45 degrees max.

Hit the VOR LOC button

Intercept from above at 10 miles out or more to give yourself time.

Once you see the glideslope moving down hit the GLIDE button, lower the nose and reduce speed to 180 knots.

at 800 feet callout, reduce speed to Vref (160 to 165 knots).

If weather is clear, disconnect the A/P and land.

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Intercept from above at 10 miles out or more to give yourself time.

 

Is there a normal distance that the signal should be acquired?

 

And yeah, I'm not really trying to land or do things properly atm, just trying to get and check the hang of how ILS works, esp. with this big techno sled.

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Is there a normal distance that the signal should be acquired?

 

And yeah, I'm not really trying to land or do things properly atm, just trying to get and check the hang of how ILS works, esp. with this big techno sled.

 

I would recommend doing some basic ILS practice in the 172 or other default aircraft to get a good understanding of how it works, before you try to jump into the deep end with something like the Concorde.

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I agree there.... at Concorde speeds you'll be flying a really fast approach... things will whiz by and you won't really gain any knowledge...

 

Fly the Cessna or mooney...

 

In real life you'll be "turned on" the localizer at a point about 3-5 miles from the final approach fix (sometimes the Outer Marker). So about 10-ish miles from the airport.

 

You should get the approach plate for the one you're practicing. It will tell you what altitude to intercept at for glide slope information.

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And yeah, I'm not really trying to land or do things properly atm, just trying to get and check the hang of how ILS works, esp. with this big techno sled.

Joining the chorus, you don't do yourself a favour with trying the basics in the overweight Concorde from your example.

 

A piston plane (easy engine handling, no turbine delay) and an airport with the corresponding charts at hand will do. Later, you can switch to faster planes and see how the mechanics change. Or the timing, to be precise.

 

Not to be read the wrong way, Concorde X is a great addon. But with the basic high workload plus the improper setup, she may not allow to devote much attention to the ILS basics. Still, she may be the most challenging plane in the sim. And, later, the most rewarding. :smile:

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I didn't zoom the screen shot until now. With 64Kg of contents remaining, that makes landing tough (maybe even impossible). I am usually landing with less than 18,000Kgs and usually around 11,000 Kgs.

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Here is a test flight I use to check the limits and proper operation of the ILS/AP system:

 

ILS Procedure for FSX (practice) at KSEA (B738 <30% fuel):

 

Set COM1 to Tower 119.9.

Set NAV1 to ILS RWY 34 RT 110.3.

Set NAV2 to ILS RWY 34 LT 117.1. (Both DMEs the same)

Set GPS/NAV switch to NAV.

 

1. Taxi to position and hold Rwy 34 RT.

 

2. Don't call the tower and they will ignore you. ATC/Tower procedures come later.

 

3. Set AP HDG to 343, ALT to 5000, and AT AS to 250.Turn HSI CRS to 343 just for correct card orientation.

 

4. Takeoff. Set AP/HDG/ALT/AT to ON.

 

5. Turn HDG to 168. Aircraft will turn to 168 and level off at 5000.

 

6. At 23 miles DME, turn HDG to 010 and AT AS to 190. (The LOC needle will stay active to about 25 Miles. When the DME reads about 20 miles the Glideslope (GS) needle will go active and peg to the top of the guage and the BELOW G/S light will come ON).

 

7. When the LOC needle comes off the right peg, set APP (or LOC) to ON. The aircraft will turn to center the LOC needle and HDG will dis-engage. The GS needle will slowly come down and center. The ALT will dis-engage.

 

8. Drop 3 clicks of flaps, Set AT AS to 160. Drop gear. The aircraft will fly 2.5 degree slope.

 

9. Drop gear and set AT AS to 150. Add flaps slowly to Full DN.

 

10. At 100 feet, dis-engage AT and AP, close power levers.

 

11. Flare/land.

 

Do a touch and go to try it again.

 

Have fun

Dave

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Here is a test flight I use to check the limits and proper operation of the ILS/AP system:

 

ILS Procedure for FSX (practice) at KSEA (B738 <30% fuel):

 

Set COM1 to Tower 119.9.

Set NAV1 to ILS RWY 34 RT 110.3.

Set NAV2 to ILS RWY 34 LT 117.1. (Both DMEs the same)

Set GPS/NAV switch to NAV.

 

1. Taxi to position and hold Rwy 34 RT.

 

2. Don't call the tower and they will ignore you. ATC/Tower procedures come later.

 

3. Set AP HDG to 343, ALT to 5000, and AT AS to 250.Turn HSI CRS to 343 just for correct card orientation.

 

4. Takeoff. Set AP/HDG/ALT/AT to ON.

 

5. Turn HDG to 168. Aircraft will turn to 168 and level off at 5000.

 

6. At 23 miles DME, turn HDG to 010 and AT AS to 190. (The LOC needle will stay active to about 25 Miles. When the DME reads about 20 miles the Glideslope (GS) needle will go active and peg to the top of the guage and the BELOW G/S light will come ON).

 

7. When the LOC needle comes off the right peg, set APP (or LOC) to ON. The aircraft will turn to center the LOC needle and HDG will dis-engage. The GS needle will slowly come down and center. The ALT will dis-engage.

 

8. Drop 3 clicks of flaps, Set AT AS to 160. Drop gear. The aircraft will fly 2.5 degree slope.

 

9. Drop gear and set AT AS to 150. Add flaps slowly to Full DN.

 

10. At 100 feet, dis-engage AT and AP, close power levers.

 

11. Flare/land.

 

Do a touch and go to try it again.

 

Have fun

Dave

 

 

"Line up and wait" aka the rest of the world!

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After doing some testing seems like the signal can be picked up at no more than 20 miles out. Perhaps some other airports are further, I don't know, been testing only at one airport.

 

The plane won't actually turn towards the airport and try to align itself until it is very near in front of the airport within maybe a 20 degree wide band.

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In FSX it is bugged... The localizer in real life can be intercepted many miles out, I believe 20 is correct for FSX.

 

As a rule of thumb, if perpendicular to the localizer, turn onto final at your ground speed divided by 100 miles. So if the localizer heading is 270 and you're flying 180 kts northbound, turn left heading 300 when you're 1.8 miles south of localizer.

 

For practice either use the default GPS or find a point of reference so you know how far you are from localizer.

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After doing some testing seems like the signal can be picked up at no more than 20 miles out. Perhaps some other airports are further, I don't know, been testing only at one airport.

 

The plane won't actually turn towards the airport and try to align itself until it is very near in front of the airport within maybe a 20 degree wide band.

 

1. I believe the theoretical limit in FSX is 27nm.

 

2. Since the Concorde has no FMC, and no SID/STAR/Approach capability, include the most important waypoints of them in your INS flightplan. Most important, include the waypoint where the localizer is captured, and both the previous and next waypoints, for insurance.

 

For example, here is a flight I did a few days ago:

 

 

LGAV ABLON BISBA BGR CLE TEBLA BCN LEBL

 

 

Now if you look at the LEBL ILS25R chart, you will see that the point where the localizer is to be intercepted is along the straight-line segment defined by the points TEBLA+BCN, so there was no way I could miss it. I was in INS autopilot mode up until the last moment.

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Yup, I did more testing tonight. Found 26 DME to be farthest the signal is picked up. So far, 21.5nm is the farthest that I've gotten the Concorde to actually 'lock on' and start turning towards the runway.

 

Also, with 3000ft altitude at 7.8nm out, the 'radio altimeters are active' message is announced and the plane starts to descend on the glide slope. I'm guessing this changes i.e. if I was higher this would happen sooner/farther out. Wonder if there is a max height limit to where the glide slope is started?

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Also, with 3000ft altitude at 7.8nm out, the 'radio altimeters are active' message is announced...

 

This has nothing to do with the glideslope capture. If you fly level at an altitude 2000ft above mount everest, the moments you pass directly above it, you will also hear that message.

 

I'm guessing this changes i.e. if I was higher this would happen sooner/farther out. Wonder if there is a max height limit to where the glide slope is started?

 

Yes. If there is no elevation (hills/mountains) to intercept the glideslope, it will.

 

In fact, there are several airport approach charts that have the official glideslope capture at 10 or 12 or even 15nm miles out at an altitude of even more than 4000ft.

 

In general, around flat areas, (eg Amsterdam, Dubai, etc.) you will be able to capture the glideslope much further away from what the charts describe.

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This has nothing to do with the glideslope capture.

 

I guess I don't understand what that audio message is trying to tell me then?

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"Radio Altimeters are active".

 

Concorde has two radio altimeters, one on the Captains instrument panel and one on the First Officer panel. They use radio waves emitted from instrumentation on the aircraft belly to bounce off the surface of the ground to measure the height of the aircraft above the ground.

 

The call out you hear by the Flight Engineer is made at 2500ft, to signify that the radio altimeters are showing a reading. Above 2500ft, the readings are masked.

 

The call out has nothing to do with the AFCS or ILS systems on the aircraft.

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