I would, but too late now, I can't change the thread title anymore :-(

 

Srangely while this was a feature I tested in gliding sims, I never had tested with either fsx, ms flight, aerofly fs or dcs. The tests with ms flight were rather easy to perform, and they all revealled that negative speed effects are not modelled there. XP10 was also easy to test, and the results were positive... Then i took me quite a while to get the ideal test situation for DCS p51d, and aerofly fs not being easy with some of the airplanes to get into a tailslide, also revealed this sort of aerodynamic situation is modelled ;-)

 

Yes, DCS is the most perfect indeed :-)

Why then the default Su25 in DCS does not show control reversal when on ground and with tailwind?

Hmmm, it would have to be quite a tailwind for the aileons to become active enough on ground and max wind is not that high...

 

For me testing the p51d was rather difficult, but I finally managed to... The Aerofly FS gliders, Extra, Pitts ad even the DR.400 can also be made to shw that effect...

More technicalities. A whip stall versus tail slide. With the tailslide (according to some) enough power is applied to keep a positive airflow over the flight surfaces, but not enough power to remain at altitude (hover). During the whip stall, power is off, and the aircraft will fall backwards before quickly nosing over to head down hill. In this maneuver, if rudder & stick are not firmly held, the reverse air flow to the flight surfaces can bang them to their stops.

 

BTW--- I wonder how the Patty Wagstaff X-Plane Extra 300 (2011) model is doing. I seen a video that looked good, but haven't found out much more.

 

L.Adamson

Very good observations Larry, and it was one of those scarry whip stalls that once happened to me in the K21 :-/... I holded the controls tightly into my waist... It's still present on my mind....

Haven''t been on this forum in almost 1/2 a year, When I left Jcomm was complaining and whining about MSFlight not being perfect,, and FSX not being perfect . Now it's Xplane. Whine, complain, I TRIED TO USE A PROFANITY HERE - AREN'T I STUPID! and moan.. God what a PIA,

Yep... that's me :-) ... and you of course ;-).... Welcome back, come complain with us... it's good for the blood vessels!

 

Bob, of course XP10 is a great sim platform, not comparable to MS FLIGHT in terms of potential now that MS FLIGHT is... well you know how it is...

 

A lot of interesting posts, from flight dynamics to scenery and weather rendering have been written lately which pretty much contribute to demonstrate that there is still a LOT that can be done to turn XP10 into an even better flight simulator.

 

A friend who approached XP10 very carefully, who happens to be in the aerospace sciences field, has dedicated some time to X-Plane and found that indeed, just as some have pointed out before, provided you have the necessary data to design an aircraft, and that includes all of the many variables that can be used in Plane-Maker to buid your model, you can come up with a very good approach to the various performance aspects of the real thing.

 

There are aspects of the core flight dynamics model in X-Plane that make a lot more complete and powerful than what you can achieve with default MSFSx or MSFLIGHT flight model, and I am not only talking about rotary wing and space ships... So, while my complains regarding MS FLIGHT or FSX were terminal, there being no hope to ever seeing what I didn't like there solved in any way, in XP10 all is still possible.

 

There is nonetheless a new sim I can't find anything to complain about other than having fewer time than I liked to to play it - DCS World, and particularly it's p51d... Try it if you can, and see how such an arcade MS FLIGHT cockpitless toys are...

 

@Bobsk8: Man, you shouldn't have unveiled my secret... around here they all though I just complained about X-Plane... Now how will I be able to face them again :-/

Haven''t been on this forum in almost 1/2 a year, When I left Jcomm was complaining and whining about MSFlight not being perfect,, and FSX not being perfect . Now it's Xplane. Whine, complain, I TRIED TO USE A PROFANITY HERE - AREN'T I STUPID! and moan.. God what a PIA,

 

This post violates our TOS. Please be a little more friendly to your fellow simmers in the future.

A friend who approached XP10 very carefully, who happens to be in the aerospace sciences field, has dedicated some time to X-Plane and found that indeed, just as some have pointed out before, provided you have the necessary data to design an aircraft, and that includes all of the many variables that can be used in Plane-Maker to buid your model, you can come up with a very good approach to the various performance aspects of the real thing.

 

There are aspects of the core flight dynamics model in X-Plane that make a lot more complete and powerful than what you can achieve with default MSFSx or MSFLIGHT flight model, and I am not only talking about rotary wing and space ships... So, while my complains regarding MS FLIGHT or FSX were terminal, there being no hope to ever seeing what I didn't like there solved in any way, in XP10 all is still possible.

 

Possibly..................................but perhaps in the future. In the meantime, I go by what I use, see, and hear now. For instance, Geof A. recently mentioned two Beeches. A single engine model for XP-10 which he liked, and a twin for FSX which likes very much also. And this is about flight dynamics. The twin seemed to have got dismissed on this forum. It was as if, Geof A..................who actually owned and flew the real life Beech Baron that is being modeled, seemed to have very little persuasion on this forum. I happen to know that Geof has probably purchased about every "worthwhile" twin GA plane out there, for both sims. He's still of the opinion, that the Beech twin for FSX has the best GA flight dynamics yet. What this says to me, is that FSX is still very capable of producing top notch flight dynamics, despite any default FD that was produced years ago. As to the future I can't say.

 

In the meantime, I've seen several X-Plane aerobatic aircraft videos. I liked the planes, and I liked the scenery. I'll want to get them. I've also seen some other great looking XP scenery additions. It's reassuring to know, that quite a number of flight sims can easily exist on cheap hard drives these days. Just pick & choose for the occasion.

 

L.Adamson

I'm on that hunt to Larry... I wish I got a positive sign from what I keep experimenting, but until now, the only thing I can still believe in is that is "has potential"..... Well...

I shouldn't speak for Geof, but I'll add a observation.

 

Geof has been quite complimentary when it comes to the Carenado aircraft in Xplane, (not just FSX aircraft) and has asked repeatedly why the Carenado aircraft react so "real world" compared to his real world experiences. I don't know if that has been answered or not to his satisfaction. I think he's implied that if all Xplane aircraft reacted similar to those, he would be quite happy, but they don't? At least not the default Xplane aircraft.

 

Glen

I know how to make a prop aircraft behave more or less like Geof (and I myself) would like all prop aircraft to behave... I just don't like the solution...

I know how to make a prop aircraft behave more or less like Geof (and I myself) would like all prop aircraft to behave... I just don't like the solution...

 

Jcomm, not to be rude, but the "solution" IS the only thing that matters. Most users want things to be as real as possible, and could care less if the "original" is "pure". It's like anything in life, if I can find a way to make things work or "behave" in the manner I need, that's good enough for me. It doesn't mean I immediately reject something based on it's face value. Show me how to make a situation better, and I'm all for it, I think most users are. We just need the option(s) to make things better, hope that made sense? If I'm going in the total wrong direction, my apologies.

 

If the problems (imagined or real) with the aircraft can be corrected / smoothed out, that's all that matters, and is all the end user can ask for. I guess the question still remains, can it be "fixed" or ironed out? We (most I think) could care less if it's a "cheat", if it works, it works. It's the end result that's important, it either flies "true" or it doesn't? If Xplane offers a way to make things right (a cheat), what more can you ask for.

 

 

Glen

Yes, the fix is just as I posted during the weekend:

 

- Here regarding a possible fix for the poor ground handling under x-wind...

 

- Here, post #35, the tweak model for torque roll...

 

Anyone interested in testing this sort of approach should experiment with different values, and if possible have acces to real flight parameters - speeds - for a better final result....

 

The basic idea is to use Art Stab within some speed (IAS) intervals (LOW / HIGH). In the case of excessive roll due to torque from prop / engine we should make the Art Stab start at a speed just above stall or Vmc, or even a little bit higher so that at low speeds and / or high alpha, the torque effects are felt (realistically).

 

For the easier ride while taxiing or taking off under x-wind the idea is to use the opposite (a low speed interval) with a speed up to which the Art Stab does it's "miracle" to make the aircraft more stable in yaw... Inputs and a speed above 1 KIAS are nonetheless required to start the Art Stab working, so you wont see the effect when you just disengage teh parking brake...

 

Although not mandatory, in my case I chose to set the sliders for art stab and linearity of control inputs all the way to the left when using this sort of tweak.

This approach is not incompatible with the use of predefined trim tabs for aileron or rudder, although trial & error to get the desired effects should be used until one's satisfied with the results.

 

Hope this helps

 

(as usual, many thanks to Goran who pointed me to this section of PM long ago...)

 

;-)

So, Jcomm; Do you now keep testing closer and closer to the edge of the edge of the envelope until you find another failure point, or will you just settle down and zoom happily through the sky for a while? Maybe even (horrors!) shoot at something? ^_^