AoA 737 FlightWork

[KeithyGeorge 1]

I purchased the MD-11 training and was really happy with it.

I have been thinking about the ground work training for the 737 but all I hear is bad things but I want to learn the systems better with out reading 000s of pages.

Can anyone reccomend any good videos to learn all about the systems similar to groundwork from AOA please Payware or freeware?

[CTBlankenship 36]

Somebody above stated that the ground work part of the 737 training for AOA was pretty good ... they only dropped the ball with the 737 flight work.

[thaine 5]

I purchased the MD-11 training and was really happy with it.

I have been thinking about the ground work training for the 737 but all I hear is bad things but I want to learn the systems better with out reading 000s of pages.

Can anyone reccomend any good videos to learn all about the systems similar to groundwork from AOA please Payware or freeware?

 

 

Somebody above stated that the ground work part of the 737 training for AOA was pretty good ... they only dropped the ball with the 737 flight work.

 

 

I think the ground work part of the 737 training is really thorough and well made. So if you get the chance to purchase only that part, I would say its definitely worth it.

[ohsirus 241]

I haven't checked out any of the Flightwork videos yet, but the groundwork videos are really good. If video #4 is really that bad then Chris will usually correct major issues in his videos, or at least he used to. Maybe he did feel rushed to get it out as this was his most ambitious AoA project to date. I really enjoyed his MD-11 and 747 videos, but they were released without the rabid pressures of when is the next video is coming out. I just hope he realizes that he doesn't have to wait until PMDG releases their A/C before he starts his video productions as I never understood why he didn't film groundwork while we waited for PMDGs release. Seems like he generated most of his learning graphics separate from FSX anyway. 

[Brenchen 51]

I am no real world pilot or controller, just an enthusiast, so when it comes to expertise and knowledge, I am not on par with many of you out there.  However, being a member of this small community, I just feel that perhaps things like this (the original thread) can be done through a direct email to AOA rather than open it up for public viewing?

 

A flightwork's flight could take some time to make, and what you're saying is a major flaw on their part;  and if they've chosen to carry on with their "procedure", there must be reasons.  It might be a good idea to possibly first find out what is that they are trying to achieve.  If you can't figure it out yourself, perhaps ask them first?  If that still doesn't help, then bring it up for public discussions?

 

Why I say this is because by publicly announcing that a company has done something wrong may have more or less some impact on their reputation, specially to their prospective customers.  And AOA doesn't seemed like the type of company whose primary interest is to make money.  So there might be parts of the puzzle that are missing and it would be a good idea to first find those out?

[Chris from Angle of Attack 7]

Hey all! I suppose it's about time I jump in here and give my two cents, shed some light on what's going on, and so on. 

 

I want to thank all of you who support AOA and continue to support AOA in our effort to offer Simulations best training. Our job and mission is a big one. And we certainly couldn't do it without your support, feedback, and often even patience. 

 

I'd like to clear up before I get started in direct responses a few things I think are important to keep in mind. 

 

First, contrary to popular belief, I'm a real person. Like you, I have dreams and aspirations. Like you, I have struggles and hardships. Like you, I work hard and do my best with what I have. I by no means accept that I am perfect in any sense of the imagination. I have my limitations, but also my strengths; like you. 

 

Next, I work very hard on AOA. I started this company in 2005 with the Level-D 767 company, and have somehow (by the grace of God!) I've survived and at times thrived in this industry. I'd imagine that this work is like any industry, with challenges with customer relationships, culture, product quality, politics in the industry, costs, cashflow, and so on. 

 

In other words, there is a lot more than meets the eye than a few videos (that is the topic of the discussion) and I hope that through my comments, you all can see that I'm a guy a lot like you: I love aviation, I love simulation, and I'm a bit of a computer nerd. 

 

So, here goes my response. Some are just point clarifications and information, some I will challenge you, some I will give praise, some I will verify, etc, etc. 

 

This is long, so if you're interested, and you'd like another side to the story, please read. 

 

I've also created THIS SURVEY that you can fill out at the end, or now, or whenever. We take customer feedback very seriously, and I will be reading the responses myself to better direct our efforts now and for the future. 

 

Here we go...

 

If you are dissatisfied and you are still within the 14 day "trial" period, request a refund. That is what I did. They were quite cordial about it.

 

We actually have a 30 Day Return Policy, but we are also reasonable beyond that. Get with our support team and we'll talk. We're pretty easy going as far as this is concerned, and we really want our customers to be satisfied and happy. 

 

It would appear critical posts are being deleted from the AOA pages; at least mine was. I gave them the benefit of doubt for the first few flights, but there are so many mistakes. They even go to all the trouble of using PFPX, then use the information incorrectly to fill in the FMC (the reserve fuel level hasn't been entered corretly once yet.)

 

As I noted on our website, I deleted your comment because you were being unreasonable, and regardless of my attempts to engage you and talk about it, you continued to go on and on. IT wasn't getting anywhere. 

 

Reserve fuel entry is supposed to be entered the way we showed you in the last several flights. Some other airlines do it differently. Reserve fuel should be the fuel remaining at the field upon landing (which is on the paperwork). 

 

I will of course verify this information, and make sure it's correct. 

 

First of all I have to apologize to the AoA guys (Chris) as I've been a little hot headed when posted this yesterday. I've watched other 737 training videos and they are of quite good quality.

 

However I have to stand behind my opinion, that the flight #4 departure has been if not unprofessional, then at least rushed.

First he has planed the SODR5E out of rwy 04R. He was unable to find the appropriate plate and because of the first waypoint, he has decided for TURI5E departure instead, which has been programmed into CDU (FMC). He than checked the route, which has shown a crazy loop on the ND. Comment was, that sometimes the anomalies like this happen in the PMDG and they usually correct themselves and that a loop like this is not a part of the SID. Checked the rest of the route afterwards. He missed some other strange turning points in the departure on the ND during planning and left it as it is without further action. In no way you would want to do this in the real life.

After T/O he has realized, that FD is giving him strange lateral reference and had decided to disregard. Flying the SID he has realized, that there are many strange turns (at least it is what ND showed) and had tried to keep the magenta line. There were many bank angle warnings during his efforts. He has also been very late with starting the turns. After some time he has realized, that he is unable to keep with the route and has started to delete some waypoints to avoid the strange turns.

 

This was a base for my comment. He should plan and go through the departure during preflight and compare the chart with FMC. He would discover those mistakes and would have a chance to correct them before trying to fly the SID and compensate in the air.

 

To be fair I have to say, that the rest of the flight was OK and the approach into Madeira has been executed well.

 

 

First of all, Horani, sorry for your frustrations here. I also appreciate your new and easier tone here. Thanks for that. 

 

I want to talk about this departure. It's true that at times in a simulator we can face situations like I faced on this departure where things simply don't work the way they should, for whatever reason. The thing we have to keep in mind is that the systems modeled by PMDG, and then coupled with systems like the weather engine and the navdata, can have minor and major hiccups. 

 

On my flight, for whatever reason, I had a major hiccup in this system. This happens in a simulator because the redundancy is just not the same as it would be in the real aircraft. The level of data, and the fidelity, just isn't as robust as what real airlines pay crazy amounts of money to have. 

 

I'm not an idiot. I know this departure was pretty bad. I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to teach you all this exact lesson: that things do happen, and you have to know what to do- because when you're in there air, it's time to make the decisions you need to in order for a safe flight. 

 

The autopilot and FMS went completely wacko on me. I've seen those 'turns' we saw in the flight path iron themselves out as you reach a prior leg, or something of that nature. Most of the time it works itself out, and rarely does the aircraft take over like that. 

 

As a pilot, we all have to intervene if we know something isn't right. 

 

For whatever reason, that departure was not right, so I had to do the best I could with what was being thrown at me at the time. The setup was solid, the route was set, and I do not believe that should have happened. 

 

My attempt to teach a valuable lesson that stuff can happen, seems to have bitten me back. 

 

One thing I've REALLY tried to hammer across in FlightWork that is NOT going over well with our viewers (I will be investigating why) is the fact that things do not ALWAYS go according to plan. In fact, they rarely do. 

 

We can send you perfect videos. We've done it in the past. But to be honest, for every perfect flight you see from us (MD-11 for example) are 20-30 takes that you DONT see, where there are minor errors in the simulator, or freak-outs like that. 

 

In the 737 Training, because we are doing so many flights, we thought, "Why not teach these guys how it's really done? We'll record and fly live, things will be unscripted, and we'll fly as real pilots do". 

 

That doesn't seem to be coming across very well. 

 

In my defense: This departure, and something in the computer, was completely messed up and I had to take immediate corrective action. 

 

Not in my defense: I could have taken over early, monitored the expected conditions better, and so on. I have accountability. 

 

But there ARE reasons I left the mistakes. Reasons that are for teaching purposes in addition to the other reasons above. 

 

Hi Horani? My pre flight would have been TUR15E to allow for the first way-point. Sometimes when you place a SID in the FMC, a bit of fine tuning needs to occur to avoid some way-points that do not follow the plate for what ever reason. Or if they are required maybe a speed restriction is in place to meet the turn radius. As you say, maybe he was too rushed and did not step though the plan prior to finalising it? As I said earlier, I do not have the AOA 737NG training package.

Regards

 

 

I did the TURIL 5 E as well, from what I remember. (I haven't reviewed it again to check)

 

Everything from the FMS looked good in my mind (other than the loop, that I've often seen in FS, which seems to iron itself most of the time. )

 

I do (did) own it ... and I was becoming concerned with my purchase when AOA wasn't even half done with the promised 30+ hours of tutorial before they started advertising for the new 777's coming out. From what I can tell they are rushing through the 737 coursework so as to flesh out the 777's. Now that is just my take on the matter ... I just got a bad feeling ... and processed a refund.

 

 

Actually, I have nothing to do with the 777 Production. I will be doing FlightWork, but we aren't in a position to work on that yet in 777. 737 FlightWork is completely separate from concerns of 777. 

 

So us posting about 777 isn't choosing one thing over another. It's that 777 and 737 have separate production teams. 

 

Hi Charles, Maybe you are right. Now we have the 777 soon, then the 747v2, not to mention the DC6? I think Chris and his guys should concentrate on doing the tutorials well and if that means a tad slower, then so be it. I think it is a case of limited personnel resources. To be fair to 737 guys who purchased the course work, he should endeavour to do it as per agreed time frames, then start the next a/c etc. I know it is exciting to get the training out for each a/c when it is released,or close thereafter, but I think this just is not practical with limited resources to spread your self too thin. 

Regards

 

 

I've hashed this out in several places, including here on Avsim. The comment above alluded to it, but the crux of it all is that our 737 FlightWork team, and our 777 Team, are separate. It's not even that one COULD work on the other. The 777 GroundWork team is essentially working on 777 GroundWork. Their skillset is specific to that product, not FlightWork. FlightWork takes a completely different production style. 

 

I use GroundWork Team people when and where I can, if they're needed. But the truth is, they just don't have the kind of impact on FlightWork that they do on GroundWork, because of how those products are produced. 

 

 

(Continued in next post)

[Lawyer+Pilot 126]

 

Example:

You learn chart reading back in private pilot training, but what airspace classification is this airport (the blue one, in the middle: BKT), and what are the communication requirements?

 

...

 

I bet ya that even some ATPs will screw that one up.  It's an obscure reference, sure, but it's one to make the point that rating != all knowledge.

I have to be honest. RW airline pilots forget (and couldn't care less) about obscure rules and procedures that we learn in flight school. We all have to learn this stuff for PPL, CPL, etc., but career pilots are most likely going to forget rules and procedures that are irrelevant to what they do. I remember flying with a veteran airline pilot in a CRJ sim one day. I was a student, and he had a few thousand hours TT and a few hundred on type. We were just messing around. We had to fly a VOR approach with a DME arc. He asked me to take the controls out of sheer frustration and annoyance. We had to hand fly an entry procedure to a hold during a full ILS approach. He flew that one himself, but forget about teardrops and all the other rules they teach you in pilot training. He told me he forgot entry procedures years ago. He just flew to the VOR and whipped that bad boy around to the outbound heading.

 

Point being, there's school, and then there's real life. The PTS only rules your life for so long. We all have to suffer through the paces, but remembering literally everything is impractical when your flying involves or requires you to have facility with only a fraction of the material.

[Chris from Angle of Attack 7]

I've just requested a refund for flight work too.

 

The groundwork was well worth the money, but every flight work flight has been riddled with basic errors, albeit many are fairly minor. I'm sure Chris is trying his best, but unfortunately his best is not providing the professional level training that he advertises.

 

 

And you'll get one. 

 

This is where I'm going to challenge you. Not every flight has been riddled with basic errors. Riddled would say they are everywhere. They aren't everywhere. You're pointing out one or two things in a sea of hundreds of things that were done correctly, and saying the entire video is flawed as a result. 

 

I realize you're not happy, but we have to be fair. There are minor things here and there, yes. I've admitted them, learned from them, and so have the rest of you. 

 

Our videos and our courses are extremely professional, and they are something that cannot be found anywhere else, unless you want to pay hundreds of dollars for a mediocre groundschool course, or tens of thousands for a flight simulator checkout. 

 

We don't promise perfection. Perfection and professionalism are completely different things. 

 

And I stand by the fact that our training is as professional as we advertise. 

 

If you expect perfection, that is something we never sold to you. If you expect to fly your simulations to a professional level, then that IS what we have advertised, and that is what we deliver, and continue to deliver, not only through our videos but in the way we handle our community. 

 

We are here to improve and grow, just as you are. We cannot improve if we're already perfect. 

 

With the experience that I have had with AOA's 737 training I would not recommend getting their 777 product.  It has taken them more than a year to get to the point that they are now with the 737 training.  They had a lot of excuses but they constantly missed expected delivery dates and still have a way to go with the flightwork and linework sections.  They seem to treat this more like a freeware project rather than something that customers are paying good money for.  The videos are somewhat haphazard and lack a real professional approach to preparation and execution.  It could be that they will have their act together by the time they start selling the 777 training but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

 

I completely and totally disagree, respectfully, with everything you've said here. Let me pick it apart and tell you why. 

 

"They had a lot of excuses but they constantly missed expected delivery dates and still have a way to go with the flightwork and linework sections."

We haven't made excuses. We've given you real reasons that we've followed up on time and time again, we've had an open voice, and an open conversation about it. These videos are extremely difficult to produce to the level that we do, and at the price we do. We've been forthcoming, and I've shared many details about our challenges, the reasons why we were struggling, and so on. 

 

I've also shared our triumphs. But that doesn't matter much for someone with an already sour taste in their mouth. 

 

"They seem to treat this more like a freeware project rather than something that customers are paying good money for. "

Now this I really don't understand. Each video we produce takes a tremendous amount of time. And at the frequency, and the amount we produce, there is no possible way that we could do all that being freeware. 

 

This is a full time job for many people on our staff. 

 

Overgeneralizing based on a few mistakes is offensive and wrong. Our team, and myself, work incredibly hard to produce high quality training- and a lot of it! No freeware outfit can do what we do. Or even come close. 

 

 

I can't imagine paying for any product like this. In preview shots, the quality looks great. For me, there has been no airplane that I have not understood after tinkering a bit on the ground with the manual, and a few test flights of my own. The NGX is super easy to learn, I don't think paying for these videos is needed.

 

 

Respectfully, you aren't our customer type then. People that want our products are people that realize that pilots don't fly an aircraft like 737's by reading manuals alone, and people that find it much easy to see-and-do than read-and-do. It's not done that way in the real world, and you can't expect real and accurate results that way. 

 

This goes to the core of what we believe: You can't learn to fly with manuals. 

 

I am no expert but the last few videos are rushed and not very good at all, they seem to be concentrating more on T777 competitions etc , I'm a AOA subscriber and have always backed them however I feel they are getting sloppy and it shows in the narration during the videos and the mistakes that are being made, this basically teaches people the incorrect methods.

 

Some of what I explained above will answer to the 777 competitions, but I want to talk about the 'rushed' and 'sloppy' you're referring to. 

 

In the past, AOA customers have become reliant on completely scripted and very structured flights. This doesn't allow us to have ANYTHING variable. Weather has to be perfect, saved, and flown the same way. The aircraft and all procedures have to act the exact same way, almost down to the second. And each and every word has to match what is going on. 

 

(Flight #1 in FlightWork is 90% this way. So you can see the difference. Yes, MUCH more structured, but also unrealistic)

 

With this FlightWork, we really wanted to do it realistically. Pilots NEVER knows exactly what's going to happen, so why should we? Sure, we had an idea of what we wanted to teach during those lessons, which fit into our routes. But we wanted this to be much more realistic, because flying a flight in a scripted manner is completely and totally unrealistic. 

 

We figured that the mistakes, WHEN they came (and hopefully minor) would be overlooked for the fact that this was done live. 

 

It may seem more sloppy, and the narration is different, because it's LIVE. I'm flying and doing the voice over at the same time. Not flying the flight, and then doing the voice over later. 

 

I hope that sheds some light on that. 

 

I have to agree on this. I really loved their Aviator 90 and AviatorPro course until Chris moved on and it was left in shambles. His enthusiasm on these videos was addictive and I enjoyed just watching the videos and eagerly awaited updates.

 

However with the 737 flightwork, I knew something was wrong when they released the first video for the hand-flying. I didn't see the point of it, but just left it at that and waited for the first flights to come in. Just a couple of points

 

1) Chris sounds fed-up and uninterested. He is continually sighing loudly and sounds stressed. It comes across in these videos quite clearly, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks so. I guess we can't blame him though.

 

2) A mistake done once (i.e. Entered +57 instead of -57'F) can be forgiven, but doing it in two videos and then blaming a bug in the NGX is crazy. This "little issue" really messed up the FMC, and I'm surprised this wasn't immediately picked up and the video started again.

 

3) After the first flight, he seemed to stop using checklists and just seemed to go from memory, not really checking anything properly and missing things. This is evident when in the last flight to Madeira, the departure was messed up pretty badly, and he again blamed a bug in the software and just did something that wouldn't be allowed in the real world.

 

4) Using unreleased software in the videos, so we can't actually follow along. PFPX looks great, but none of us have it, and we've already waited long enough for the videos.

 

After the huge delay actually getting these videos out, I'd actually read and done most of the stuff myself from tutorials on Youtube. Although not NGX specific, I really love FSX404's channel on Youtube, who does an approach to Innsbruck and Madeira the hard way.

 

Eitherway, I will still be buying their 777 course when it is released. As after everything, I really do like their videos

 

 

1)Yeah, I'm human. I do the lesson WHILE I'm flying, and doing things right can be stressful at times. I didn't feel that stressed, though. I apologize for have less pleasantries in return for a realistic and live flight. That's not sarcasm. Just saying, if that's something that's lacking, sorry about that. I'll work on putting on my 'happy face'. 

 

2)This actually was the largest mistake I made, and a dumb one. You can bet you guys will never be doing that! But I actually didn't enter +57, I entered +157. If you enter a number (two digit) in that field, it'll automatically be a negative number. Because it wasn't anywhere close to the range it needed to be, it entered it at as positive. 

 

I need to review this in the video. From what I was told, I entered a 1 as well, for whatever reason. (Believe me, I'm not that stupid. I know better)

 

3)It was a bug in the software. And checklists aren't Do-lists, they are CHECK lists. Items are checked after they're already done. If you aren't doing items on the checklists by memory first, and checking them second, you're not getting the point and you're not doing it as real crews do it. 

 

 

Didn't he film the flights in one afternoon?

 

 

Right, I'd like to see you try that. The fact that the time of these flights can't even be fit in the waking hours of one day is pretty telling. You obviously have no experience with making videos. No offense, but it's ignorant to say something like that when you don't have a clue what goes into it. 

 

No, the Innsbruck one was done last year, and then the rest seem to have been done in early February.

 

 

Last year meaning the saved flight files were at the end of December, and the other flights were done in January, and released in February. Just wanted to clear up that is wasn't a YEAR between flights. 

 

From the quality of them, you'd be forgiven for thinking so.

 

 

That's why your posts are getting deleted on AOA. What's the point of even saying anything? I'm starting to think your username has something to do with THIS DEFINITION of flaming. Pretty sure you're aware of that, and it's simply part of your online character. If I have the choice, and I see it effect my community enough, I will delete your comments from AOA as a result. People are there to learn, not read stuff like that. 

 

I purchased the MD-11 training and was really happy with it.

I have been thinking about the ground work training for the 737 but all I hear is bad things but I want to learn the systems better with out reading 000s of pages.

Can anyone reccomend any good videos to learn all about the systems similar to groundwork from AOA please Payware or freeware?

 

 

You can go to Youtube and get inaccurate information, or you can go get a real type rating. Those are your choices. We'd love to have you onboard! I promise things are not as extreme as some of these fellows are making it out to be. We have an incredible product you'd enjoy, and would find value in. 

 

I haven't checked out any of the Flightwork videos yet, but the groundwork videos are really good. If video #4 is really that bad then Chris will usually correct major issues in his videos, or at least he used to. Maybe he did feel rushed to get it out as this was his most ambitious AoA project to date. I really enjoyed his MD-11 and 747 videos, but they were released without the rabid pressures of when is the next video is coming out. I just hope he realizes that he doesn't have to wait until PMDG releases their A/C before he starts his video productions as I never understood why he didn't film groundwork while we waited for PMDGs release. Seems like he generated most of his learning graphics separate from FSX anyway.

 

 

A few points here, thanks for the post. 

 

First, we do correct stuff when needed. And we are seriously considering correcting some of these issues that people can't seem to look past. We don't see it as that big of a deal, as things happen to even real crews. But we'll correct them if needed. 

 

Second, in terms of not waiting for PMDG to release the aircraft, that's exactly what we've done with 777. Granted we can't fly the thing, but we sure can get ahead in a lot of ways! I can tell you right now that you guys are going to be blown away at the turn around we've had from 737 to 777. You're going to be surprised what we have to offer on release day. And how complete it'll be. 

 

Conclusion

Wow, this was a long one! I hope I did a bit of a justice with a lot of these, and explained more what's going on. 

 

I will be monitoring this thread now for follow up comments and questions. 

 

vvvvvv   PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE   vvvvvvv

 

Fill out THIS SURVEY. It'll help us tremendously in determining overall feedback from the community on our FlightWork line of products, so we can improve now and for the future. It'd really help us out a ton!

 

Thanks so much, again, for all your support. It's much appreciated. We look forward to many wonderful days of flying ahead. 

 

Throttle On!

Chris Palmer

Owner/Founder

Angle of Attack

[OmniAtlas 93]

Hi Chris,

 

I didn't mean to offend, I just thought I read somewhere in the past you had done a lot of filming in one go. I appreciate what you are doing which is why I bought the series in the first place

 

It must be very difficult doing all the work (mostly by yourself?) -- with all the preparation, filming, editing. Flying and having a discussion at the same time must be tough.

 

I'm only up to the first flight and take my sweet time viewing your videos so I don't mind the wait. I think for what you are getting (many many hours of video, resources, and personal feedback from Chris, who is open to suggestions) it is a good deal -- where else can you find video of this quality for this price?

 

Chris isn't perfect -- perhaps if he has time he can correct those mistakes (just a suggestion, I haven't viewed the latest videos yet). I for one am waiting for the series to be completed so I can make a nice DVD to be placed on my bookshelf and to be viewed on my bigscreen.  

[por930 51]

Hi Chris,

Great to see you dive in. I actually sent you an email to your support desk, giving you a heads up that you need to get involved, but it came back as deliverable. 

 

Chris, in your forum you actively stop people posting "comments and complaints" about what ever and ask them to convey their issues via your support desk...Thomas Crowell wrote...

 

"Please remember that the point of these forums is to discuss and build on our products with your fellow training members. It is NOT the place to voice your complaints or suggestions for Angle of Attack.

Please direct all questions, comments and complaints about Angle of Attack to our support team at support@flyaoamedia.com. We'd be happy to address them.

Please note from this point on, posts made simply as complaints will be either locked or deleted. Members who continue to post these posts after having one locked or deleted may be banned from using the forum".

 

I appreciate it is your forum so you can decide what is published. But, I think by you restricting complaints and suggestions you force people to go to other forums, such as this one. I would have thought better to keep it in house. Maybe you are correct, as some people can be quite unfair, and their incorrect views paint a bad picture for your product. But, there are some adverse comments that are correct to varying degrees that other users would find interesting and maybe offer a solution to the poster.

 

Anyway I have been following your company since the LD767 days,and I have the 747v1 hard copy and MD11 online training. Both excellent. As more and more of us flyers want to get more systems and flight training information and knowledge, you really are in a niche providing it now.

 

I think you need to consider external persons carrying out tests of your training packages prior to release. Note their comments, revise it, resubmit, if "most" happy, then go for it. If you already have these people, then their error filtering needs to be lifted. While PMDG guys frustrate the $%^ out of us with delays etc, they know only too well, simple errors can hurt them more than a delayed release.

 

Regards

[Flamin_Squirrel 71]

I have been quite critical, so I'm going to take the time to reply properly to repay your courtesy of two long posts and creation of the survey.

 

That's why your posts are getting deleted on AOA. What's the point of even saying anything? I'm starting to think your username has something to do with THIS DEFINITION of flaming. Pretty sure you're aware of that, and it's simply part of your online character. If I have the choice, and I see it effect my community enough, I will delete your comments from AOA as a result. People are there to learn, not read stuff like that.

 

I don't pretend it's easy, but you need to get out of your defensive mind set. While your preflight videos IMO have been quite good, the flights themselves feel like they were all cobbled together in an afternoon. Accuse me of flaming you all you like, but that's how I, and I suspect many others feel.

 

 

As I noted on our website, I deleted your comment because you were being unreasonable, and regardless of my attempts to engage you and talk about it, you continued to go on and on. IT wasn't getting anywhere. 
 
Reserve fuel entry is supposed to be entered the way we showed you in the last several flights. Some other airlines do it differently. Reserve fuel should be the fuel remaining at the field upon landing (which is on the paperwork).

 

I wasn't going on and on. It was my first post in that thread. I simply stated that I viewed your "every pilot makes mistakes" excuse for many errors as a cop out. I'll explain why.

 

Reserve fuel in the FMC: Having researched this a bit, I believe that it's supposed to be: final reserve + alternate, from the load sheet. In some of your videos, you've used the final reserve, others the estimated fuel on landing. Which is it? It can't be right in both. You've also used wing anti-ice incorrectly, and entered the wrong speed (V2 + 20 rather than V2) in the MCP prior to departure. All of these mistakes were present in the first flight alone.

 

Yes professional pilots will make mistakes. However the errors present in your video don't demonstrate your human fallibility, they demonstrate you haven't fully understood the operation of the aircraft. This may sound rather harsh but taking the MCP speed as an example, the FCOM specifically states you should use V2. While it's perfectly possible you, or indeed a professional pilot, may inadvertently enter the wrong V speed on the MCP, this isn't what your mistake was: you simply didn't know what the correct value should have been in the first place; a professional pilot would. This is a subtle but very important distinction.

 

I know the errors listed above may seem small, but it's precisely this details that I, and I suspect many others, purchased your videos to learn.

 

I hope you'll find this more reasonable, albeit unpleasant to read.

[tonywob 4,770]

 

1)Yeah, I'm human. I do the lesson WHILE I'm flying, and doing things right can be stressful at times. I didn't feel that stressed, though. I apologize for have less pleasantries in return for a realistic and live flight. That's not sarcasm. Just saying, if that's something that's lacking, sorry about that. I'll work on putting on my 'happy face'.

 

Hi Chris, thanks for the taking the time to reply to people's comments.

 

I didn't mean I was expecting you to be laughing and joking all the time, but there was just something about these videos that came across as if you were stressed and uninterested. All other videos you have done you have a very different tone, and sound like an enthusiast, really into what you are doing. I know you're only human, but I can't help thinking the big mistakes that came up in these videos and the above are all related. I hope you will be doing the 777 flightwork videos, and I hope when the time comes, you'll have more time to do them.

[BartEnder 2]

Guys, this discussion is somewhat pointless.

 

AoA does a great work for 'fresh pilots' without the need for a thorough understanding of the plane operated or for the virtual captains which fly more that two types. I was presented some time ago their Boeing 747 Video Training - the videos was pretty good, but did not touch many things at all - if I would not be a B747 junkie, that would suit me pretty well and would cover most, if not all, situations I would face. I have seen Aviator90 course for a GA refresher and I think they are a great value.

 

Actually I am reading all the 737NG documentation (did not purchased it yet, I am so busy with JS41...), it will take a month or so - if I would not have the time to read all the stuff (which I personally believe is crucial for proper commanding the airplane), I would simply buy the AoA's product. They promised 30hrs of material as far as I remember. That would be about half the time needed to read PMDG's tutorials and FCTM/FCOM + briefly scan of QRH. Plus, You can see the action, not only read about it... And I bet I will have to read it all again after I will purchase the 73NG and take it for a few legs. I am in a comfort of having the time to read, but not everybody has - remember that. That's why AoA is here for us.

 

Everybody makes mistakes... I do not blame Chris Palmer for setting V₂ + 20 during takeoff, but it would be great to have a comment in the video explaining the error rather than posting in not very elegant manner here, at avsim. I haven't seen the screwed SID mentioned in this topic, but that would be a good idea to learn the auditors about decreasing the level of automation in such case and preparing the viewer before with thorough chart explanation, monitoring raw data during departure and so on.

 

If You don't like it - ask for a return or do not buy it. As simple as that. I am grateful of AoA for making our complicated hobby more understandable for new virtual captains out here - they material is easy to digest, very well narrated and the video assembly is one of the best in virtual aviation world.

[Flamin_Squirrel 71]

Everybody makes mistakes... I do not blame Chris Palmer for setting V₂ + 20 during takeoff, but it would be great to have a comment in the video explaining the error rather than posting in not very elegant manner here, at avsim.

 

Putting a comment in the video wasn't an option. The mistake wasn't identified until the video was posted; then viewers (those that were supposed to be learning, not doing the teaching) identified the problem.

 

 

If You don't like it - ask for a return or do not buy it. As simple as that. I am grateful of AoA for making our complicated hobby more understandable for new virtual captains out here - they material is easy to digest, very well narrated and the video assembly is one of the best in virtual aviation world.

 

I was denied the (partial) refund I requested, because I purchased the Captains package longer than 30 days ago. In fact, I purchased it in August 2011.  

 

AoA does a great work for 'fresh pilots' without the need for a thorough understanding of the plane operated or for the virtual captains which fly more that two types. I was presented some time ago their Boeing 747 Video Training - the videos was pretty good, but did not touch many things at all - if I would not be a B747 junkie, that would suit me pretty well and would cover most, if not all, situations I would face. I have seen Aviator90 course for a GA refresher and I think they are a great value. 

 

'Fresh pilots' maybe true of the 747 training, but not for the 737. The whole marketing premise behind the 737 training was to learn to fly like a pro. That was never going to be an easy task to accomplish; but if you wish to market a product in such a way, to the most hard core of simmers, and charge more than the aircraft itself, it's naieve to expect much in the way of mercy. Especially if the videos make it look like you didn't read the manual.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

I have to be honest. RW airline pilots forget (and couldn't care less) about obscure rules and procedures that we learn in flight school.

 

[...]

 

We all have to suffer through the paces, but remembering literally everything is impractical when your flying involves or requires you to have facility with only a fraction of the material.

 

...which is essentially my point.  To a simmer, if someone has any real pilot license (especially Comm or higher), what they say has to be true.  To often, in this hobby and in real aviation, people hear a licensed pilot say something and assume he or she knows everything there is to know about everything.  As you mentioned, this may or may not be true.

 

I was really just pointing out that the earlier point made by someone - that the maker of the videos is a real world PPL+IR - doesn't necessarily mean he's going to be credible on all accounts.