Ethopian B787 fire incident at Heathrow

[IAF747 8]

It continues....

 

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/18165788/qatar-grounds-a-787-as-glitches-pile-up-on-boeing-jet/

[n4gix 4,961]

The most important sentence in that entire article:

 

 

Even aircraft with decades of service regularly suffer glitches that go unreported and rarely pose a direct threat to safety.

It is the media's intense focus on every single possible niggle that's the proximate 'cause of much of the hype.

[vololiberista 205]

The most important sentence in that entire article:

 

 

It is the media's intense focus on every single possible niggle that's the proximate 'cause of much of the hype.

That's true to an extent Bill! Aircraft have small problems just like our cars.  But for the CAA to issue a directive because they are concerned with the wiring is potentually serious. And, in fact wiring problems seem to dog this aircraft. I for one would not be keen to fly in a 787 across a large expanse of water with a locator beacon u.s.

Beoing have had long enough to eradicate the 787's "teething" problems.

"There's no smoke without fire!" as they say. Oops!

 

An example of an aircraft with an exemplary service record the VC10!!

[ViperPilot 81]

The Media is so hell bent on hyping every story that comes out! They demand transparency and full disclosure on every little aspect; what they don't get factually, they'll speculate and manufacture for their own aims.

 

It's a sad state of affairs we have to deal with. :angry:

[IAF747 8]

Well Boeing has just changed the Chief Engineer. If this doesn't say anything to you then you are missing it entirely.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/26/us-boeing-changes-idUSBRE96P14M20130726

[japascoe 98]

Well Boeing has just changed the Chief Engineer. If this doesn't say anything to you then you are missing it entirely.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/26/us-boeing-changes-idUSBRE96P14M20130726

 

It says to me that a couple of people at Boeing got a new job. Is vice-president of product development a lower or higher ranking position than <insert program here> chief engineer? I haven't a clue myself.

 

The things that are wrong or not with the 787 are technical problems. While changes in who's in charge of the program may waggle their eyebrows suggestively, they are not proof of anything, unless Boeing includes a press release saying that the management is being changed because it completely botched everything up.

 

Whether the 787 is safe or not is a technical question, and thus should be argued on the technical merits, backed by hard numbers and sound logical reasoning. Not by selective media reporting, references to human resource shuffling or vague fears based on a limited understanding of the physics involved that shows the reporter hasn't even bothered to spend 5 minutes on wikipedia.

 

Note that I'm not arguing that the 787 is safe, I'm just saying that there are right and wrong ways to go about finding the answer to that question and that: 'I have insufficient data to answer that question' is a valid answer too.

[FlyVFR 58]

It continues....

 

You really like to stoke the fire.

Are you in the media cause you act just like them.

 

Besides the battery grounding what you see is perfectly normal and acceptable for a new airplane. I work in flight test for a Boeing rival company and this is normal and perfectly acceptable.

The internet age uncovers everything and makes it difficult to keep what would be perfectly normal for a new and still immature production design under wraps. These things happened all time and if not more on earlier aircraft designs. I'll trust the airlines judgment on this. I would like to see how many orders have been cancelled due to reliability. If there are then no one is reporting that.

 

It's safe to say the 777 and we all know the A380 has had and will continue to have their own share of problems.

Oh yea, let's not forget about the A330 crash in flight test that killed 7 flight test crew.

Imagine if that happened today with today's media and internet aviation "experts".

 

I hope to see the same cynics that like to bash the 787 on here once the A350 starts going through its teething pains. It's got a at least 2 years of painful flight test crossing their fingers nothing catastrophic happens. I wish them luck. I hope they do as well as the 787 did.

 

If you don't like it then fine don't fly on it. I can not wait to check it out.

This new generation of Boeing and Airbus aircraft has raised the standard and expectations of flying efficiency and comfort.

 

Edit:

This article pretty much sums up what I'm trying to say in a much more eloquent way.

[FLEX1978 373]

What has the A330 test flight crash got to do with anything? I am sure you have read the report and know It was pilot error

[Airbus Commander 563]

Can we all please stop referring to something going on fire or creating toxic smoke as a teething problem. That is not a teething problem.

 

Teething problems include:

"Oh look, this valve wore out faster than we expected and now we'll have to ground the plane for a day and cancel a number of flights while we fix it."

 

"Oh look, component x has jammed, looks like we'll need to ajdust the lubrication schedule for that part. Better delay this flight for an hour or two while we get some grease on there to unstick it."

 

Teething issues are minor issue that you can't forsee like maintainence actions being needed before a check is scheduled or things that get ironed out as time passes and you realise that a part only lasts 300 instead of 350 cycles or equivelent. They cause delays.

 

Wing cracks in the A380 and fires/smoke on the B787 are not examples of teething issues. They're examples of serious oversights, although as the A380 needed to be inservice for a number of years before the cracks would show, it's more acceptable in my book than something going on fire.

 

That being said, I can't see myself as things stand, having any issues with flying either on the A380 or the B787, although I would be hesitant for a while more about flying on the B787 if I had a connecting flight, but that's not a safety concern, merely a convenience/hassle one.

 

Regards,

Ró.

[FlyVFR 58]

What has the A330 test flight crash got to do with anything? I am sure you have read the report and know It was pilot error

 Just making the point of:

What would happen if that occurred today with our sensationalized media and internet?

I doubt we would be seeing the 1000th A330 rolling off the assembly line like we recently did.

 

Barring the battery engineering catastrophe, the 787 has almost the same dispatch reliability the 777 had at this phase of production and maturity, which was unprecedented and will always be very hard to top.

ELT and oven fires are something that can affect any aircraft flying today. I see it as bad luck that it fell on the 787.

By the grace of a higher being these did not happen in flight and Boeing has been very lucky.

 

 

 

Can we all please stop referring to something going on fire or creating toxic smoke as a teething problem. That is not a teething problem.

 

You're right, a fire on board an aircraft is not a teething problem.

Once you figure out what the cause is then you can see that it is relatively small engineering fix then that is a teething problem. The battery on the 787 and the cracked wings on the A380 are not teething problems.

 

What we are seeing now and what stirred the pot again is at most a teething issue. Qatar called it a minor issue for them and Boeing is directing all inquiries to the airline. This tells me the blame for this issue lies with the airline. Not Boeing or the airplane.

[FLEX1978 373]

If that happened today an investigation would take place and conclude the flight crew allowed the aircraft to drop below Vmca killing everyone onboard. That information would then be released to the public.

 

Still not sure what you are getting at?

[FlyVFR 58]

Still not sure what you are getting at?

 

What you explained is how it is suppose to happen. That is not what we are witnessing now in this era.

The point is the media and what I call "pocket reporters" (everyday people with a twitter app on their phone) would blow it out of proportion and tarnish the reputation of a great airplane before it had a chance to establish one on it own merits.

 

I can't explain it any more clearer than that. I'm sorry if my point is not being made to you. I'll just have to leave it at that.

[ViperPilot 81]

So is this discussion going to turn into another playground squabble about who's right and who's wrong?

[IAF747 8]

Can we all please stop referring to something going on fire or creating toxic smoke as a teething problem. That is not a teething problem.

 

Teething problems include:

"Oh look, this valve wore out faster than we expected and now we'll have to ground the plane for a day and cancel a number of flights while we fix it."

 

"Oh look, component x has jammed, looks like we'll need to ajdust the lubrication schedule for that part. Better delay this flight for an hour or two while we get some grease on there to unstick it."

 

Teething issues are minor issue that you can't forsee like maintainence actions being needed before a check is scheduled or things that get ironed out as time passes and you realise that a part only lasts 300 instead of 350 cycles or equivelent. They cause delays.

 

Wing cracks in the A380 and fires/smoke on the B787 are not examples of teething issues. They're examples of serious oversights, although as the A380 needed to be inservice for a number of years before the cracks would show, it's more acceptable in my book than something going on fire.

 

That being said, I can't see myself as things stand, having any issues with flying either on the A380 or the B787, although I would be hesitant for a while more about flying on the B787 if I had a connecting flight, but that's not a safety concern, merely a convenience/hassle one.

 

Regards,

Ró.

I am very confident on the A380 now. Even if there could possibly be a chance with an engine (it has been fixed) i still feel much safer than a fire being possible. On the A330-300 back from BKK in June I was raised about smoke. I raised the alarm with the crew who investigated it. It was just before meal time and came from the ovens as they were heating food obviously. The thing is a fire being possible is always a very alarming issue.

 

I agree, it is not a teething problem.

 

And now Boeing has appointed a new Chief Engineer of the 787.

 

Regards

 

Daniel

[FlyVFR 58]

Just a friendly debate. No harm meant between anyone.