Flew a Cub today in real life and the first thing I thought was "man FSX sucks at simulating torque."

 

It needed very little rudder on takeoff (winds were calm). In FSX the cub is off the runway after 20 feet if you don't use hard right rudder.

Flight Replicas Super Cub Ultra will also tail lift with brakes on.

 

Yeah, I have that also and it's very good. However it's not quite the same. With AccuSim, the effectiveness of the elevator and rudder depends on your throttle setting. To turn while taxing, you actually have to give it a burst of power while applying rudder. But the Flight Replicas Super Cub is really nice too.

To the OP, the answer to your question is that nothing on a PC adequately simulates a moving real-life conventional-gear airplane.  Have fun flying FSX or P3D, but nothing you do there comes remotely close to genuine tailwheel flying (or landing!).

Flight 1/Uiver DC-2 keeps you 'busy' when on the ground. No idea if it's realistic, but it sure feels like you're 'driving' a big ol tail-dragger!

Yeah, there's not really any aircraft in FSX that simulates tailwheel ground handling very well. I've got a lot of FSX tailwheel aircraft and keep searching for that illusive quality. I just don't think there's a FSX aircraft that will help you practice tailwheel handling in real aircraft.

 

I don't find the RealAir Scout/etc to be very convincing unlike some others above. Of course, I don't have much stick time in these aircraft, but the OP asked for general tailwheel feel, I believe, not whether the FSX bird models the feel of the real life bird that well. For that touchy, dance on the rudders, chase the nose around feel of most older tailwheel aircraft, here's what I think comes closest (although, sadly, not all that close in the final analysis).

 

I think A2A works hard at this, and with the exception of the Cub (I agree), they do a decent job. I've never even come close to taxiing the real version of any of these, of course, but I kind of like the P40 and the P51 the best for modeling torque, P-factor and gyro effect, and that feeling of being on the edge if you don't control things correctly.

 

The only FSX aircraft that I've ever unintentionally ground looped was the Sibwings Pitts. Overall, I really like Sibwings aircraft. I find the Pitts' ground handling decent, but not that close to the famous touchiness of the little real life demon. It's hard to say how the AN-2 handles on the ground because it's never on the ground that long!! What a STOL bird!! It feels good to me though, and I really like that plane. I'd have to agree with those above who say the Bird Dog is pretty decent. It has that wallow feeling when using the rudders on the ground without compensating aileron input. Probably the closest of the Sibwing aircraft.

 

Actually, I find the new Lionheart Pacer a pretty decent effort in this regard, although, like the default Cub, probably a little over the top, particularly with respect to what I'm calling the "wallow" effect. Overall, though, I think it isn't a bad choice for practicing tailwheel aircraft. I also think the Aerosoft Wilga is pretty good. It doesn't have a steerable tailwheel, and it models the lumbering feeling of ground steering with brakes pretty well, and also models the limited effectiveness of rudder inputs until decent speed is achieved. But it's easy to land.

 

The SeaBee also does a pretty decent job of modeling overall ground feel, although it's a funny tailwheel aircraft, with very little angle since the engine is overhead and behind.

 

None of these model particularly well the way a tailwheel aircraft feels and reacts when it is landed, even on grass, with the least bit of deviation from straight. They don't even come close to modeling the kind of grab and side forces you would expect when landing a little crooked on asphalt. But, I'd have to say again that the Lionheart Pacer is maybe the best at this in my experience.

 

Other very nice and otherwise quite believable planes, like the C185 or the delightful Classics Hangar Taifun or the really nice Bay Towers RV-7 or the Alabeo birds are quite docile on the ground (although the RV-7 might be a kitten in real life as well....don't know).

 

So, I recommend the DCS P-51. :-) Really, that model feels quite good to me. Land it right and it lands well. Get off even a little and there'll be hell to pay, not to mention the virtual A&P.

 

Those are the thoughts of a fellow tailwheel enthusiast, for what they are worth. Good luck, and share what you find if you find something that suits.

Another (lapsed) RW Citabria/Decathlon driver here.  I agree with Bill.  The RealAir birds are darned good.  There is a sweet spot in VC design where the gauges are generally large enough to read (most of the time) and your peripheral vision is good enough to fly the plane.  The Scout/Citabria/Decathlon has this nailed.  The only thing that seems a little "wrong" is I never remember the stall warning blowing before I could lift the tail.  With the right trim and flaps (if you got 'em) the bird just lifted off beautifully!  Great GA taildragger choice for many missions.  Well executed by RA.  (personal opinion follows) 

 

If I had to pick a nit and it is a nit...  The plane looks a little too pristine.  That might work in a slick flyer like the Legacy but I like my old workhorses to have a little of that "earning my keep" patina on them.  And oh yeah... heel brakes sucked big time.

 

Mi dos centavos

 

Obie

 

 

Another vote for the Real Air Citabria/Decathlon/Scout! I the real world, I learned to fly many years ago in a Citabria and I have to say the Real Air model simulates it very accurately. The only difference is that the Citabria I flew had heel brakes (which I hated!) <snip>You will not regret getting either of these.

 

Bill

Would kill for A2A DC3.

Oh yes. Yes, yes, yes!

If anyone wants a real challenge in ground handling, then try out Flight Replica's Messerschmitt Bf-109K.  The Me109 was widely regarded as having the nastiest ground handling of just about any plane.  Many pilots were killed by groundloops during takeoffs, as well as during landings.  They say that more Me109s were lost in ground accidents than were lost in combat. 

 

The flight model by Bernt Stolle seems accurate and is quite a challenge, almost as challenging as the much-feared and deadly FSX default Cub.  :rolleyes:

I'll add the Flight Replica's P-40N for a nice replica of tail-wheel handling.   I've never flown a tail dragger, but the P-40 ground handling certainly looks right!   And it's more fun to fly than most other FSX warbirds IMO.

Warbirdsim P-51D (any one will do!)  Hands down.  

 

xml coding allows for the proper use of the tailwheel... ' nuff said!

 

 - Joseph

This one isn't a gimme.  It requires much skill and practice. Lots of things happen very fast.  It will keep you on your toes and make you appreciate the intrepid young men and women that jumped out of T-6's and into P-51's.

 

Slim

Yeah, there's not really any aircraft in FSX that simulates tailwheel ground handling very well. I've got a lot of FSX tailwheel aircraft and keep searching for that illusive quality. I just don't think there's a FSX aircraft that will help you practice tailwheel handling in real aircraft.

 

I don't find the RealAir Scout/etc to be very convincing unlike some others above. Of course, I don't have much stick time in these aircraft, but the OP asked for general tailwheel feel, I believe, not whether the FSX bird models the feel of the real life bird that well. For that touchy, dance on the rudders, chase the nose around feel of most older tailwheel aircraft, here's what I think comes closest (although, sadly, not all that close in the final analysis).

 

I think A2A works hard at this, and with the exception of the Cub (I agree), they do a decent job. I've never even come close to taxiing the real version of any of these, of course, but I kind of like the P40 and the P51 the best for modeling torque, P-factor and gyro effect, and that feeling of being on the edge if you don't control things correctly.

 

The only FSX aircraft that I've ever unintentionally ground looped was the Sibwings Pitts. Overall, I really like Sibwings aircraft. I find the Pitts' ground handling decent, but not that close to the famous touchiness of the little real life demon. It's hard to say how the AN-2 handles on the ground because it's never on the ground that long!! What a STOL bird!! It feels good to me though, and I really like that plane. I'd have to agree with those above who say the Bird Dog is pretty decent. It has that wallow feeling when using the rudders on the ground without compensating aileron input. Probably the closest of the Sibwing aircraft.

 

Actually, I find the new Lionheart Pacer a pretty decent effort in this regard, although, like the default Cub, probably a little over the top, particularly with respect to what I'm calling the "wallow" effect. Overall, though, I think it isn't a bad choice for practicing tailwheel aircraft. I also think the Aerosoft Wilga is pretty good. It doesn't have a steerable tailwheel, and it models the lumbering feeling of ground steering with brakes pretty well, and also models the limited effectiveness of rudder inputs until decent speed is achieved. But it's easy to land.

 

The SeaBee also does a pretty decent job of modeling overall ground feel, although it's a funny tailwheel aircraft, with very little angle since the engine is overhead and behind.

 

None of these model particularly well the way a tailwheel aircraft feels and reacts when it is landed, even on grass, with the least bit of deviation from straight. They don't even come close to modeling the kind of grab and side forces you would expect when landing a little crooked on asphalt. But, I'd have to say again that the Lionheart Pacer is maybe the best at this in my experience.

 

Other very nice and otherwise quite believable planes, like the C185 or the delightful Classics Hangar Taifun or the really nice Bay Towers RV-7 or the Alabeo birds are quite docile on the ground (although the RV-7 might be a kitten in real life as well....don't know).

 

So, I recommend the DCS P-51. :-) Really, that model feels quite good to me. Land it right and it lands well. Get off even a little and there'll be hell to pay, not to mention the virtual A&P.

 

Those are the thoughts of a fellow tailwheel enthusiast, for what they are worth. Good luck, and share what you find if you find something that suits.

 

Nothing wrong with recommendations, but I think perhaps you are concentrating on just one small aspect and assuming that every tail dragger involves fighting a permanent tendency to ground loop. You do generously mention though, that you "don't have much stick time in these aircraft". In fact, the Citabria and Decathlon, although somewhat different in general handling, are relatively very stable in ground handling as long as you do not use much braking on the rollout, which can result in a nose over.

 

Here are two separate quotes from two separate highly experienced Citabria pilots:

 

"The Citabria can be a very, very forgiving airplane and you have to work fairly hard to actually do a ground loop.". This quote is from a comprehensive review by a veteran of Bellanca/American Champion aircraft and an expert on type, Bud Davidson, from a 1981 review. Here is the link to that statement: http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepCitabria.3.html

 

In another expert pilot review here is another quote: "Landing the Citabria is a sensuous and rewarding experience........."  "The aircraft is basically very stable and has no adverse characteristics sometimes associated with tailwheel aircraft." Here is the link to that quote by David Costa, a CFI and aerobatics instructor with (at the time) 10,000 hours! Link here: http://renegadeav8r.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/landing-the-citabria/

 

By far the most important thing to watch in Bellanc/American Champion taildraggers is not to brake heavily and to keep the stick well back at all times when on the ground, except when established on the take off run. Nose-overs are a far bigger threat in these aircraft than ground loops.

 

On the other hand, something like the UK-made Rolleson Condor, which I flew as my initial training aircraft before I even touched a conventional tricycle wheeled aircraft, is a different story. That taildragger has a small rudder which is not too effective at low speed and indeed every take off run needed total concentration to avoid a ground loop.

 

I think it is fine to compare your personal views about sim aircraft.- but you need to be a bit more sure of your information before posting assumptions that all tail draggers are poised to ground loop at any moment!

 

Kind Regards,

 

Rob - RealAir

Jeez....I never said nor do I assume that "all tail draggers are poised to ground loop at any moment!"  I was merely responding to what I understood to be the focus of the OP, which is a FSX tail dragger that would simulate the somewhat touchy ground handling of many classic tail draggers, such as the Cub, which he mentioned, or, for instance, that lovely little yellow bird over to the left.  Since I do have a lot of RW hours in tail draggers, including that one, I was merely trying to suggest some models that might offer less docile ground handling and that might come closer to the experience he seemed to me to be looking for and that I regularly experience in real life.  

 

It could well be that I've misinterpreted his question.  I certainly wasn't casting any aspersion on any particular FSX aircraft (and I own and thoroughly enjoy almost all of the aircraft you offer).  But I really don't see how the OP could have been asking whether there are any tail wheel aircraft in FSX that are so docile that it's hard to distinguish them from a tricycle gear aircraft.  I trust your Scout/etc is a very good representation of the real life airplane.  I just don't think it offers the kind of tail wheel experience the OP is looking for.  If so, then great.  

 

As I said, though, the ground handling of most tail draggers is one of the areas I don't believe FSX handles particularly well, along with spins (which I know you have worked hard at modeling) and cross-winds, ground effect, ground friction upon landing, turbulence..... 

I've flown a c180 before and compared to fsx, it doesn't come close. I have all of A2A's planes and their somewhat good. Now the sibwings AN2... I can't get it to turn even with full throttle. Lol. I even have the beta update installed. Which was said to fix that issue... It hasn't for me.

 

 

 

Sent from my RM-877 Tapatalk

I've flown a c180 before and compared to fsx, it doesn't come close. I have all of A2A's planes and their somewhat good. Now the sibwings AN2... I can't get it to turn even with full throttle. Lol. I even have the beta update installed. Which was said to fix that issue... It hasn't for me.

 

 

 

Sent from my RM-877 Tapatalk

Jeez....I never said nor do I assume that "all tail draggers are poised to ground loop at any moment!"  I was merely responding to what I understood to be the focus of the OP, which is a FSX tail dragger that would simulate the somewhat touchy ground handling of many classic tail draggers, such as the Cub, which he mentioned, or, for instance, that lovely little yellow bird over to the left.  Since I do have a lot of RW hours in tail draggers, including that one, I was merely trying to suggest some models that might offer less docile ground handling and that might come closer to the experience he seemed to me to be looking for and that I regularly experience in real life.  

 

It could well be that I've misinterpreted his question.  I certainly wasn't casting any aspersion on any particular FSX aircraft (and I own and thoroughly enjoy almost all of the aircraft you offer).  But I really don't see how the OP could have been asking whether there are any tail wheel aircraft in FSX that are so docile that it's hard to distinguish them from a tricycle gear aircraft.  I trust your Scout/etc is a very good representation of the real life airplane.  I just don't think it offers the kind of tail wheel experience the OP is looking for.  If so, then great.  

 

As I said, though, the ground handling of most tail draggers is one of the areas I don't believe FSX handles particularly well, along with spins (which I know you have worked hard at modeling) and cross-winds, ground effect, ground friction upon landing, turbulence..... 

 

I agree FSX is lacking in key areas which do impact on tail draggers and this affects all of them to a degree. Particularly lack of lateral friction and the tendency to have far too much yaw stability. Some of these can be overcome but often at the cost of other aspects.

Just wanted to say that thanks to this thread, I reinstalled the RealAir Citabria - an old favorite, back to its first version, but I hadn't flown it in a couple of years and hadn't added it to my current FSX install.  I think I bought into the idea that it was dated - which it is, a bit, but what a pleasure to fly.  A very nice relief from most of my current aircraft, which are either so complicated it's a struggle to get them powered up, or so hectic that I suspect they're trying to kill me.  With some help from Accu-Feel sounds and Opus camera effects, it gave me a feel of flight and a nice relaxed experience that I haven't had in a long time.  I'm grateful to Rob and Sean, of course, but also to everyone who commented here.  Am happy to be back in that particular saddle.