Oh these armchair quarterbacks.  You can't judge a book by its cover and you certainly can't judge audio by what you watch on You Tube.

So when we post things, and people overreact or draw crazy conclusions, we feel compelled to clarify or explain, which is kinda irritating and draws us away from our other tasks.

 

I don't know Kyle. It would be quite easy to say inform him you have the aircraft in your hands and you disagree with the observation because of a) and b ).

 

It's an open forum - not a stage for the beta testers - and granted everyone's a bit bored and lacking interesting topics to discuss - and yes - some silly things are posted - but the adverse effect is folks become trigger shy and maybe reluctant to post their observations for fear of being attacked.

 

If he thinks the sounds sound wrong or goofy - let's discuss rather than dismiss.

 

Not a big deal - but those of us who've been around for years tend to be a bit controlling over what they want to see and don't want to see in a forum made for everyone. 

 

Have a good weekend and give that plane a good workout for all of us.

Its funny to see how everybody takes a swim with the beta tester which posted on this topic.

 

The topic starter did not want to complain I think he just wanted to point it out since it was not corrected in the NGX.

 

How can people know whats already known to be fixed and whats not going to be, they are just giving suggestions.

 

All my respect beta testers and dev team, I have been following this project since the beginning and haven't been dissapointed with anything. My post was just to suggest something not in the way of complaining.   

 

We all want a nice realistic simulated 777 right?

People are so quick to pick at pmdg even though they release some fantastic products if not the best products for the flightsim world

 

There is an expression that goes something like "the best take the most criticism". It's part of being the best; people will be harder for smaller mistakes. There is a line though between that, and just being rude.

 

Best regards,

Robin.

I don't know Kyle. It would be quite easy to say inform him you have the aircraft in your hands and you disagree with the observation because of a) and b ).

 

It's an open forum - not a stage for the beta testers - and granted everyone's a bit bored and lacking interesting topics to discuss - and yes - some silly things are posted - but the adverse effect is folks become trigger shy and maybe reluctant to post their observations for fear of being attacked.

 

If he thinks the sounds sound wrong or goofy - let's discuss rather than dismiss.

 

Not a big deal - but those of us who've been around for years tend to be a bit controlling over what they want to see and don't want to see in a forum made for everyone. 

 

Have a good weekend and give that plane a good workout for all of us.

 

 

Throughout all my time on this forum, no one in the PMDG staff has offended or attacked by anyone 

 

I like Kyle activities in the forum, although sometimes he cant hold it inside he has to take it out, but usually he has a point to clarify 

 

I agree with you that most of the new guys here are not posting or asking because of the fear of being attacked! you are right, because simply some people think that everyone should think the way they like, I even posted an apology to the PMDG and yet few people made fun of me its alright thats the mentality of humans or most of them 

 

i mean look at any YOUTUBE video, even if its a candid camera video, and look at the comments!! 

 

when the time comes and everyone tries to understand that we dont think the same, we all have concerns, and we all do mistakes, then non of these would happen, i feel sorry for the topic starter, because he just had a concern, you could simply tell him wait! but i am sure PMDG have no problem with any sort of question, they even still answer this question; ''is the 777 compatible with fs9''? 

 

cheers

Oh these armchair quarterbacks.  You can't judge a book by its cover and you certainly can't judge audio by what you watch on You Tube.

 

You mean live concerts really aren't that bassy?  Man, I've been avoiding seeing new artists in concert because people's YouTube videos of the concert sounded awful!

 

 

 

I don't know Kyle. It would be quite easy to say inform him you have the aircraft in your hands and you disagree with the observation because of a) and b ).

 

You're right.  Admittedly (as I mentioned in another post) yesterday was quite the irritating and unfortunate day for me, and this thread was pretty much the last straw.  You're right that this isn't a stage for the beta testers.  While I'm sure my post came off as me on a soap box - and I'm sure it could be argued as such - it wasn't meant to be.  By all means, post whatever you want, but when it comes to looking at the images and videos, remember that this isn't the final product, and you're not directly interacting with it.

 

I'm all for posting observations, though some of them truly are ridiculous.  The difference is in the delivery (funny coming from me, I know.)  There's a huge difference between:

"This is wrong, and the reason it's wrong is that I just have an expert ear."

...and

"I noticed that one of the beta videos had callouts that didn't sound right.  Here is [some actually verifiable method of comparing the sim to real life]."

 

 

 

Not a big deal - but those of us who've been around for years tend to be a bit controlling over what they want to see and don't want to see in a forum made for everyone. 

 

My post wasn't to say what should or shouldn't be in the forums.  By all means, post whatever you want.  The main themes were simply to:

-Express a disappointment in the apparent lack of trust in the various teams to get it right (in my case, miss an issue like that; or in the tech team's case, miss an issue like that, despite flying the plane all the time...apparently YouTube > actually flying it); and

-Note the psychological response that is innate in humans to avoid situations that are irritating (having people pick at your work can be irritating.)

 

So again, post all of the nit picking you want.  The response of the people with the information will eventually be to share less of it with the people here.  It's not a threat.  It's a fact that humans are averse to criticism and conflict.  Given the proper method of criticism, though, that can be avoided, but that's generally not the case here.

 

Again, you're absolutely right: it's not a stage for us.  It's a community for discussion.  Parts of the discussion will die out, though, if those contributing to it find it too irritating to participate.  That's all I'm saying.

 

 

This is one of many I've seen in the last couple of days, and I think it's safe to say you guys have blown it for getting the NDA lifted so early again.

 

 

Some people can't resist peeing in the pool.

 

 

Its funny to see how everybody takes a swim with the beta tester which posted on this topic.

 

I wouldn't agree that.  Even if they were "taking a swim" with me in this topic, you should have a look at the rest.  I'm not generally the one people are swimming with.  If anything, their swimming with me here is more indicative of them actually agreeing with the points, and not just agreeing with me because they want to agree with me (as some have noted, like Moe.)

 

I agree with you that feedback is important in making sure things are correct, but again, it's all about the delivery.  If it's verifiable and actionable, then great, but things like this aren't.  With posts like this, the team has no clue what to compare it to (other than the real plane), or what the OP's trained ear certifies as accurate.  As such, feedback like that just comes across as irritating.

 

Good feedback isn't simply "you're wrong."

Good feedback is "this seems incorrect, and the correct way is X."

 

 

Parts of the discussion will die out, though, if those contributing to it find it too irritating to participate.  That's all I'm saying.

 

Yep. Point taken. Comes with the territory I guess.  

You mean live concerts really aren't that bassy? Man, I've been avoiding seeing new artists in concert because people's YouTube videos of the concert sounded awful!

 

 

I did a terrible job of trying to defend you Kyle.  I should have changed it to you centainly can't judge the quality of audio by what you watch on You Tube.  And no I haven't been to any concerts in several years B)

 

Keep up the great work beta testers!

Yep. Point taken. Comes with the territory I guess.  

 

Yep.  As were yours.  And thanks for actually providing counterpoints.  Keeps me in check, which is a good thing.

I think people took Kyles posts on this thread as judgemental because the care bears are missing.

I think people took Kyles posts on this thread as judgemental because the care bears are missing.

 

Must be it!

Though he is being a little perceptive, he is correct.

The type of altitude callouts being used, are correct and realistic. But indeed, some part of them were copied from the NGX, others were re-recorded for the 777. The 2500, 1000, 500, 100, and 50 - 10 callouts sound absolutely crystal clear. The rest of them were copied from the NGX, and those don't have very good quality in my opinion.

 

The biggest problem here is, it's not nice to hear a mix of callouts with different sound qualities.

ITS A DIFFERENT PLANE!

 

 

*Royal Facepalm*

But they're both using the exact same altitude callouts! *royal facepalm*

 

Nevertheless they decided it was necessary to re-record the GPWS callouts for the 777. I do find that necessary as well, because the ones on the NGX were not exactly 'crystal clear' so to speak. So that's what they did, they went and setup a mic and recorded them. Apparently though, their simulator/airplane they got to record from, only featured a part of the altitude callouts. Now they used everything they recorded for the 777, and used the rest of the callouts from the NGX. Now you have a combo of bad and good sound quality between all kinds of callouts. In my opinion, that doesn't sound very nice at all. Luckily, the ones they recorded sound just right, now I wish they all did.