Hi,

 

I wanted to share a strange experience with simmers strungling to actually fly FSX because of setting up their cockpit of even tweaking.

 

I have flown a rather complete 737 home cockpit for the past 6 years and I figured recently that I was flying no more than one flight a month due to the time needed for seting up the beast.

I have to say that the homecockpit was very cool but could not be leaved flyable, I had to assemble / dissassemble part for using it (woman acceptance factor anyone ?).

Not saying also about the tweaking part, hardware, software networking, and all stuff you may enjoy but without actually flying.

Set up, fly, fold it.

 

Lesson 1 : Too much time to set up = not willing to set it up and no time to do it = no flying !

 

So I tried to revert to single PC and virtual cockpit operation with a fellow NGX.

 

I do have to mention I bought a new haswell PC for stopping loosing time in tweaking and have totally fluid VC operation on complex aircraft (in my home cockpit I used only external view so it was really cool on framerate).

 

First with a saitek yoke and thrust stand plus Track IR. It was "kind of OK".

 

I did not actually fly more so I figured the yoke and rudder was a pain to install each time (again desktop must be clean when non flying).

 

Got rid of the yoke and rudder and used a left handed sidestick TM16000 (the absolutely most loved joystick I ever used, unmatched precision, the absolute no brainer for Airbus FBW operation, but I actually did use it as a left captain sidestick for the NGX).

 

Then figured TrackIR was hurting my neck, It is not so easy to use.

Got rid of Track IR, using space + mouse for head movement and zoom. Very precise.

One thing less in the cockpit.

 

Then figured I couldn not use the joystick as a left sidestick and control engine power (the thrust lever is on the joystick, try it, see ?).

Plus I had to put the sidestick on a sidechair and it was set up work, even if it took 30 seconds to do it was a barrier in a way.

 

So I did remove the sidestick and tried myself to the MOUSE AS YOKE.

 

Let me tell you something about MOUSE AS YOKE.
I'm a PPL and fly C150, 172 and P28. Nothing beat the mouse as yoke feeling for controlling precisely the aircraft in the special case of the C172 in VC view. You have to see the VC yoke move to get feedback and it does work great. Especially, I'm sorry to say that Saitek Yoke is kind of crappy to the least regarding precision and smooth control, this is my opinion don't take it for general. Anyway just give it a try.

 

So mouse as yoke was a new discovery for me, using Autorudder and the mouse wheel for throttle just give you total control of the aircraft, especially with advanced mouse with more buttons and DPI control on demand.

 

So now my setup is :

- A fast single PC, 2013 hardware, stop tweaking time is more money than a new PC

- A large 27" single monitor, I just advance it in front of me to have maximum immersion by almost filling my angle of vision with it

- A illuminated keyboard (for night flying) under the monitor

- A good mouse (like Logitech G500)

 

Cocpkpit preparation :

- Enter the room

- Launch FSX

- Advance monitor (3 seconds)

- Fly

 

End of flight :

- Stop flying

- Exit FSX

- Push back monitor (3 sec)

- Leave the room

 

I now enjoy flying a few times a week in my NGX VC comparing to once a month at best.

I think such a move is also possible now due to higly immersive VC cockipt and affordable very large monitors.

 

This is not intented to persuase you to switch your habbit, this is a way to operate I wish I had tested before as it works great and which may help simmer struggling with free time and uneeded complication.

 

Less Is More does apply to FSX !

 

Interesting story. IMO your setup would be great fro GA flying. But on the PMDG 737 i couldnt spend less then an hour doing route planning and cockpit prep because thats part of the fun for me lol.

I love this hobby!

This is actually intended toward NGX flying because I don't do a lot of GA in FSX except for reviewing a real world flight before doing it (FSX is unvaluable for that).

 

Cockpit prep is done inside the VC, it does not anymore involve harware and software setup. From cold and dark to push I got 15 minutes. I never do flight longer than 1 hour enroute, no time to sadly and kind of boring too. Add maybe 20 minutes for flight planning (where do I go, from where, charts, etc).

 

When short of time (always !) I'll use standard known routes for quick flights, same gate dep / arr, route stored in CDU, etc. I use FS Kneeboard for ipad so charts are on demand no time lost at all.

 

Interestingly I also dropped Radar Contact because it added sometimes unwanted time to flight (vectoring, erratic altitude clearance, etc) so I use FSX ATC which in fact is great if you use it for departure and arrival and which will assure you clearance regarding to AI something addons don't do.

 

You see I've been pushing the less is more far and it works for me, flying more !

Interesting...... I have had a similar experience, I built a GA panel, general not specific to any AC. I had two Saitek radio panels, switch panel, autopilot panel, the BIP panel, Throttle prop mix panel. Saitek yoke and pedals. I had a screen in the middle coming from a laptop running gauge software. I ran FSX in outside view across 3 screens.

This all sounds good but after a while It got a bit dull, why? because It was always the same panel, no variation with different aircraft. Fiddling with gauge software when it (often) lost contact with FSX.

So I junked it and went back to having the Saitek panels on the desk. Then I realised that the autopilot panel was always going to be the same regardless of aircraft so that went.

The switch panel? well its nice to have physical switches but again it leads to sameness, so that went.

The BIP panel? total waste of money, everything you want show is on the VC anyway. 

I didnt need two radio stacks so lost one.

I now have the 3 screens, yoke, pedals and just one radio panel which makes tuning easy.

Other than that yep less is more.

I've been flying on FSX for years on my laptop and with my Logitech 3d pro. Mobile, fast and to the point.

Interesting story. IMO your setup would be great fro GA flying. But on the PMDG 737 i couldnt spend less then an hour doing route planning and cockpit prep because thats part of the fun for me lol.

 

An hour? Yuck. 

 

I like getting straight into the plane, setting up the fmc, starting the engines and getting on with the fun.   :rolleyes:

reminds me of my setup, a pc, yoke, rudder pedals, throttle and the projector = fsx heaven!

I find this thread very enlightened. I have been to so many flight sim shows and exhibitions where I have seen all manner of wierd and wonderful hardware setups. Except for the complete 737 full cockpits, which are very impressive but need a huge amount of cash and quite a palava to setup, most attempts at cockpits I have seen are a mish mash of aesthetically unpleasing bits and bobs of gauges, modules, displays, yokes and sticks which just look awful placed together and to my eyes could not possibly enhance the experience, let alone give a half convincing impression of a "cockpit".

 

To make things often worse, one sits down at these contraptions to see in front a facsimile of half complete banks of gauges but then you look up and see the entire lovingly designed original virtual cockpit and aircraft superimposed in front of the chaotic hardware and then the eventual view of the outside world. This hotch potch is then supposed to convince you that it  is a step towards "authenticity"! In fact all this does is confuse your focus. You are looking at a bank of poorly matched hardware gauges which then operate other software gauges on the screen, when you could have just looked at the screen in the first place.

 

I think the one item that is often very useful and fun to use is a proper MCP which at least offers the satisfaction of turning real dials and knobs to tune the autopilot. Aside from that I find this mish mash far less satisfying than a simple, well made joystick, the VC and decent monitors. On the subject of monitors, I have never understood the desire to string together a suite of wide screen monitors which offer no depth of view but an increasingly frustrating wider and wider field with no ability to look either up or down. Bob at RC simulations has overcome this limitation by intelligently using a bank of specially made monitors which fan out like modesty screens in PORTRAIT aspect instead of wide screen. They along with decent projectors are a far better investment but I suspect they are quite expensive.

 

This is of course a personal view and  I do admire the tenacity and work that is put into many home cockpits. Unfortunately it seems that unless the setup is complete and coordinated, to me the whole thing looks like a mess. Sorry.

if you look closely you can see the size of the door on the right, gives you an idea of the image size, very simple set up but with 3D glasses this sim has become amazing! 

 

 

 

 

This is of course a personal view and I do admire the tenacity and work that is put into many home cockpits. Unfortunately it seems that unless the setup is complete and coordinated, to me the whole thing looks like a mess. Sorry.

 

I guess I come in somewhere in between.  There are some input devices I simply need to have be as close to what they'd be physically in the airplane as possible.  Yoke (or stick as appropriate), engine controls, gear, flaps, radios and AP, and a variety of other switches as far as can be done.  Manipulating these with a mouse just seems... artificial.  Beyond that, when it comes to display features... yeah, I'd rather the VC be the cockpit.  In other words, it's more about input and tactile feedback than about display.

 

In the case of the OP, it seems the real issue is the time involved with having to set up a temporary situation.  So, compromises - something most of us have to do in one way or another, but there are some compromises that are just killers for some of us.  For me, sim enjoyment decreases pretty much directly in proportion to the amount I have to use the mouse.  Let me flip switches with real switches.  :-)

 

Scott

The OP situation sounds like it was temporary solution that had to be setup each time he wanted to fly. That is not a good way to build a home cockpit. To do it properly it needs to be permanent. No exceptions. My setup  can be flying within 5 minutes from computer startup and that's with 9 computers in total.  Proper planning during the build  is the key. If your not in a position to do it properly your only going to be disappointed. That unfortunately is a fact with anything in life.

 

Cheers

I guess I come in somewhere in between.  There are some input devices I simply need to have be as close to what they'd be physically in the airplane as possible.  Yoke (or stick as appropriate), engine controls, gear, flaps, radios and AP, and a variety of other switches as far as can be done.  Manipulating these with a mouse just seems... artificial.  Beyond that, when it comes to display features... yeah, I'd rather the VC be the cockpit.  In other words, it's more about input and tactile feedback than about display.

 

In the case of the OP, it seems the real issue is the time involved with having to set up a temporary situation.  So, compromises - something most of us have to do in one way or another, but there are some compromises that are just killers for some of us.  For me, sim enjoyment decreases pretty much directly in proportion to the amount I have to use the mouse.  Let me flip switches with real switches.  :-)

 

Scott

 

completly agree Scott, i try and get away from keyboard and mouse inputs as much as possible, with my FMC MCP Yoke rudder pedals etc I feel it is that i am actually controlling the plane, rather than keyboard inputs.

Hi,

 

I wanted to share a strange experience with simmers strungling to actually fly FSX because of setting up their cockpit of even tweaking.

 

I have flown a rather complete 737 home cockpit for the past 6 years and I figured recently that I was flying no more than one flight a month due to the time needed for seting up the beast.

I have to say that the homecockpit was very cool but could not be leaved flyable, I had to assemble / dissassemble part for using it (woman acceptance factor anyone ?).

Not saying also about the tweaking part, hardware, software networking, and all stuff you may enjoy but without actually flying.

Set up, fly, fold it.

 

Lesson 1 : Too much time to set up = not willing to set it up and no time to do it = no flying !

 

So I tried to revert to single PC and virtual cockpit operation with a fellow NGX.

 

I do have to mention I bought a new haswell PC for stopping loosing time in tweaking and have totally fluid VC operation on complex aircraft (in my home cockpit I used only external view so it was really cool on framerate).

 

First with a saitek yoke and thrust stand plus Track IR. It was "kind of OK".

 

I did not actually fly more so I figured the yoke and rudder was a pain to install each time (again desktop must be clean when non flying).

 

Got rid of the yoke and rudder and used a left handed sidestick TM16000 (the absolutely most loved joystick I ever used, unmatched precision, the absolute no brainer for Airbus FBW operation, but I actually did use it as a left captain sidestick for the NGX).

 

Then figured TrackIR was hurting my neck, It is not so easy to use.

Got rid of Track IR, using space + mouse for head movement and zoom. Very precise.

One thing less in the cockpit.

 

Then figured I couldn not use the joystick as a left sidestick and control engine power (the thrust lever is on the joystick, try it, see ?).

Plus I had to put the sidestick on a sidechair and it was set up work, even if it took 30 seconds to do it was a barrier in a way.

 

So I did remove the sidestick and tried myself to the MOUSE AS YOKE.

 

Let me tell you something about MOUSE AS YOKE.

I'm a PPL and fly C150, 172 and P28. Nothing beat the mouse as yoke feeling for controlling precisely the aircraft in the special case of the C172 in VC view. You have to see the VC yoke move to get feedback and it does work great. Especially, I'm sorry to say that Saitek Yoke is kind of crappy to the least regarding precision and smooth control, this is my opinion don't take it for general. Anyway just give it a try.

 

So mouse as yoke was a new discovery for me, using Autorudder and the mouse wheel for throttle just give you total control of the aircraft, especially with advanced mouse with more buttons and DPI control on demand.

 

So now my setup is :

- A fast single PC, 2013 hardware, stop tweaking time is more money than a new PC

- A large 27" single monitor, I just advance it in front of me to have maximum immersion by almost filling my angle of vision with it

- A illuminated keyboard (for night flying) under the monitor

- A good mouse (like Logitech G500)

 

Cocpkpit preparation :

- Enter the room

- Launch FSX

- Advance monitor (3 seconds)

- Fly

 

End of flight :

- Stop flying

- Exit FSX

- Push back monitor (3 sec)

- Leave the room

 

I now enjoy flying a few times a week in my NGX VC comparing to once a month at best.

I think such a move is also possible now due to higly immersive VC cockipt and affordable very large monitors.

 

This is not intented to persuase you to switch your habbit, this is a way to operate I wish I had tested before as it works great and which may help simmer struggling with free time and uneeded complication.

 

Less Is More does apply to FSX !

Wanna sell some parts of your homecockpit?

To both Robert's and Scott's points, I have found the touchscreen to be a delightful solution. Functionality and the uniqueness of the plane's VC. I still need the feel of a yoke, throttle, and some rotaries for the AP, but for buttons and toggles the touchscreen works great.