Any links for those stories? I'm finding them to be hard to believe. The 10 min phone interview I would believe if it were not for the job but for an interview. Lots of times the first step is a phone interview. Hiring a convicted murderer no way. Someone who was charged and found not guilty yes.

 

 

-P50&Pilot

No links at all. Just 'hearsay' from around the watercooler. You can test some of it yourself though. Throw an application into Mesa for giggles and see what happens. Word is they'll give you a classdate at the end of the phonecall. Now I'm not sure if the guy was convicted, all I said was he was charged. Anyways, he supposedly didn't make it through initial at that regional.

The laws of supply and demand dictate that once the pilot shortage actually hits the salaries will go up. At the moment there is still a surplus of pilots though. Even here in the Netherlands there's currently something like 1000 unemployed pilots.

There is no shortage at this point for the mainlines. Plenty of regional pilots to choose from. Regionals, however have been scraping the barrels for people. Though salaries are not going up, some have been offering signing bonuses.

There are 8000+ unemployed pilots here in India and I am one of them. There are people here with both Airbus and Boeing rating and still no jobs.

 

As far as salary goes, the money the pilots in my country earn , will make anyones  stomach churn.

 

And the longer you stay in an Airlines , the more is the salary and generally commanding a salary hike per year of something around 17% of the basic.

 

By the way did I mention other than a selected few, who are actually good pilots, and who still have their identity and integrity with them, the rest are just , something else always needing to be pampered, and treated as GODs .

Maybe they should look at the option these pilots are taking:

 

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/04/u-s-pilots-find-high-demand-high-pay-overseas/

 

The key words in that article were: 'experienced captain'. Most of the unemployed pilots I mentioned are fresh out of flight school and never managed to get a job after obtaining their ticket.

The laws of supply and demand dictate that once the pilot shortage actually hits the salaries will go up. At the moment there is still a surplus of pilots though. Even here in the Netherlands there's currently something like 1000 unemployed pilots.

 

John-Alan seems like the law of supply and demand is not known on this forum just like some do not even understand the law of lift in these very forums......

 

 

Signed

 

Regards,

 

 

Daniel

This pilot shortage is a myth! Never happened, not currently happening and never will happen! Supply and demand doesn't apply or make any sense in this industry. There will always be pilots willing to take your job and do it for a lot less than what you earn. No matter how hard a pilot group has fought for a good contract, somebody is willing to sacrifice that just to fly a shiny jet. It's pathetic!

 

Look at the largest E170 operator. Every pilot here in the USA knows this particular airline is very bad in terms of pay, qol, contract, base closures, no pay protection on cancellations, very bad rsv rules and poor employee treatment and morale, however pilots line up to work there. Its pathetic!

 

The media has it all wrong. I really don't know how they come up with the average pay of 103K a year. We only get paid from block out to block in. On paper it looks very pretty to see that you get paid $23/hr. (Avg starting pay at a regional) However on a typical month you'll only get paid for 75-85 hours. Do the math...now if we got paid from check-in to check-out on a typical 4 day trip, lets say 96 hrs of time away from home at work, we would be banking, but its not like that. Pathetic!

 

I have noticed that flight schools are empty and kids now a days are not interested in flying as a career. At least here in the USA. In a way this makes me sad, however I don't blame the younger generation. There's no incentive to make flying a career because the airline industry is Pathetic!

Supply and demand doesn't apply? Is there a law that over-rides this? If so, please educate us.

 

Signed,

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Daniel

 

 

I have noticed that flight schools are empty and kids now a days are not interested in flying as a career. At least here in the USA. In a way this makes me sad, however I don't blame the younger generation. There's no incentive to make flying a career because the airline industry is Pathetic!

 

And I'm one of them, being a pilot used to be a major dream but once I got a job in the airline industry and saw first hand what goes on I'm running away from the cockpit as fast as possible. The only career I'll consider is aircraft maintenance and while that job has its issues most mechanics seem to be rather happy compared to many of the pilots.

John-Alan seems like the law of supply and demand is not known on this forum just like some do not even understand the law of lift in these very forums......

 

 

Signed

 

Regards,

 

 

Daniel

 

Supply and demand doesn't apply? Is there a law that over-rides this? If so, please educate us.

 

Signed,

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Daniel

Hello Daniel,

 

There is no pilot shortage. So the supply and demand theory doesn't apply and never will in this industry. There will always be a steady supply of pilots willing to do the jib for peanuts. You see them all the time in the crew rooms around the airports. They have no clue what a furlough feels like. What a union strike feels like. They don't take the time to actually research a particular airline before applying to work there. Take Mesa Airlinesmfor example; they will give you a class date after a phone interview! Take Great Lakes airline; the starting pay is about $16/hr. That equals to abiut $8/hr if you take into consideration that as Far 121 pilots you cannot fly more than 100 hrs in a month, 1000 hrs in a year. That's $16K a year, and pay doesnt go much higher after. Why pilots put up with that is beyond me. Now take Republic Airlines, they're the largest E170 operator in the world, they have a fleet of ERJ145, Q400's too. They are known to be a very bad airline when it comes to pilot vs management relations, no cancelation pay, horrible work rules, etc. But pilots are flocking to fly that shiny jet! Pay for an FO tops out after like 5 years at $37/hr. That's crap money! And it'll most likely take you about 7 years to upgrade to Captain.

 

This industry is a royal mess! Flying is my passion. Once we close the doors and block out I'm in heaven but once we block in and open the doors its a different story.

Hello Daniel,

 

There is no pilot shortage. So the supply and demand theory doesn't apply and never will in this industry. There will always be a steady supply of pilots willing to do the jib for peanuts. You see them all the time in the crew rooms around the airports. They have no clue what a furlough feels like. What a union strike feels like. They don't take the time to actually research a particular airline before applying to work there. Take Mesa Airlinesmfor example; they will give you a class date after a phone interview! Take Great Lakes airline; the starting pay is about $16/hr. That equals to abiut $8/hr if you take into consideration that as Far 121 pilots you cannot fly more than 100 hrs in a month, 1000 hrs in a year. That's $16K a year, and pay doesnt go much higher after. Why pilots put up with that is beyond me. Now take Republic Airlines, they're the largest E170 operator in the world, they have a fleet of ERJ145, Q400's too. They are known to be a very bad airline when it comes to pilot vs management relations, no cancelation pay, horrible work rules, etc. But pilots are flocking to fly that shiny jet! Pay for an FO tops out after like 5 years at $37/hr. That's crap money! And it'll most likely take you about 7 years to upgrade to Captain.

 

This industry is a royal mess! Flying is my passion. Once we close the doors and block out I'm in heaven but once we block in and open the doors its a different story.

 

$16000 a year to fly and be fed is more than I get right now........

 

EDIT: Law of supply and demand exists everywhere. Oversupply and "under"demand creates so called 'underpaid' pilots. You seem upset about this. It is a truth you cannot see I think. :-)

 

 

 

 

Signed,

 

Regards,

 

Daniel

$16000 a year to fly and be fed is more than I get right now........

 

 

Signed,

 

Regards,

 

Daniel

So there you go! With that statement you just prove my reasoning. There will always be pilots willing to fly for less! So the whole supply and demand theory is null and void. Because of people who think like that is one of the reasons this profession has deteriorated. It's very sad but true.

Its sad that many cabin cleaners get more money than some of these regional pilots.

Its sad that many cabin cleaners get more money than some of these regional pilots.

 

Law of supply and demand........ More people want to fly the aircraft instead of clean it, so there you go. EASY!!!!!

 

Signed,

 

Regards

 

Daniel

So there you go! With that statement you just prove my reasoning. There will always be pilots willing to fly for less! So the whole supply and demand theory is null and void. Because of people who think like that is one of the reasons this profession has deteriorated. It's very sad but true.

 

 

Incorrect, as I have already stated the law of supply and demand does not magically go away just because there is a massive 'over-supply' of pilots. Just because it is the aviation industry you assume economics does not apply here? What planet are you on?

 

 

EDIT: You have crippled your own argument by saying that pilots are willing to work for less. That is supply and demand. When you have an oversupply of laborers (spelt labourers in Australian and English) the competition increases. I suggest you go buy the book 'Basic Economics' by Thomas Sowell. I'm not insulting you because I have a copy of it and I love to read it. I recommend it to anyone who wants to understand economics. It is such an awesome book. Not really basic, but definitely is worth every cent to buy it.

 

 

Signed

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Daniel

Law of supply and demand........ More people want to fly the aircraft instead of clean it, so there you go. EASY!!!!!

 

Signed,

 

Regards

 

Daniel

 

 

 

Incorrect, as I have already stated the law of supply and demand does not magically go away just because there is a massive 'over-supply' of pilots. Just because it is the aviation industry you assume economics does not apply here? What planet are you on?

 

 

EDIT: You have crippled your own argument by saying that pilots are willing to work for less. That is supply and demand. When you have an oversupply of laborers (spelt labourers in Australian and English) the competition increases. I suggest you go buy the book 'Basic Economics' by Thomas Sowell. I'm not insulting you because I have a copy of it and I love to read it. I recommend it to anyone who wants to understand economics. It is such an awesome book. Not really basic, but definitely is worth every cent to buy it.

 

 

Signed

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Daniel

You can preach supply and demand all day long but many people as well are signing up for the military and the state department. They get a little thing called 'Hazardous Duty Pay' when they are doing jobs that could put them or others in their care lives at risk. I'm glad I don't fly commercial often because it's criminal to have people in charge of others lives making so little. You get what you pay for. This is where government regulation has to come into play because 'for profit' companies will pull some of the most hanuss practices. You wouldn't preach this sorry Supply/Demand argument so favorably if a family member of yours died in a crash because of low paid incompetence.

 

This is just another example where self regulated companies doesn't work (labor exploytation like what we've seen so many years ago) for the greater good of society especially when it comes to safety. I've seen this in the medical field as well. Your Supply/Demand argument is sound but things really need to change because the result of this practice could kill allot of people. You see with Asiana some pilots can't figure out basic 'airmanship' without automation. You've took issue with those in our community but the problem is more serious with the crappy pay and standards in the real world because as you say, 'more people want to do the job'.

Law of supply and demand........ More people want to fly the aircraft instead of clean it, so there you go. EASY!!!!!

 

Signed,

 

Regards

 

Daniel

 

 

Incorrect, as I have already stated the law of supply and demand does not magically go away just because there is a massive 'over-supply' of pilots. Just because it is the aviation industry you assume economics does not apply here? What planet are you on?

 

 

EDIT: You have crippled your own argument by saying that pilots are willing to work for less. That is supply and demand. When you have an oversupply of laborers (spelt labourers in Australian and English) the competition increases. I suggest you go buy the book 'Basic Economics' by Thomas Sowell. I'm not insulting you because I have a copy of it and I love to read it. I recommend it to anyone who wants to understand economics. It is such an awesome book. Not really basic, but definitely is worth every cent to buy it.

 

 

Signed

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Daniel

 

 

No wonder your rating is so low -10 now I understand the reason why....

 

You said that 16K is more than what you make a year, if you're happy getting paid so low, great on you, however a professional airline pilot should be well compensated for his work. What is it that you do for a living? Because if I go by your little supply and demand theory and take into consideration that you make less than 16k a year, you probably work in an industry where supply is very low or the field is flooded with your profession? So there's no demand for it, correct? So since a cleaner job is not so glamorous and nobody wants to do it, it's in high demand and that's why they get paid more than airline pilots?

 

Take the whole love of flying out of the equation for a minute; do you know how much sacrifice goes into a pilot getting into an airline? Do you know how much money it costs just to get your private, not to mention all your ratings? Do you know how much time is spent away from home? You can read all the books in the world about supply and demand and like I said before it doesn't work in this profession. I don't have to read about it, I live it every single day. Communism looks great on paper now ask the people in Cuba how they feel about it? Ask them how that's working out for them? There are a lot of "Book Smart" people but "Street Smarts" is where it's at buddy. I live this every day and have been seeing it for years, there is no pilot shortage and this whole supply and demand thing is not applicable here. Management is too greedy, unions have no power and pilots are too nearsighted to look past the shiny jet and actually look into the real meat of the issue. It's not supply and demand.

You can preach supply and demand all day long but many people as well are signing up for the military and the state department. They get a thing called 'Hazardous Duty Pay' when they are doing jobs that could them or others in their care lives at risk. I'm glad I don't fly commercial often because it's criminal to have people in charge of others lives making so little. You get what you pay for. This is where government regulation has to come into play because for profit companies will pull some of the most hanuss practices. You would have this sorry Supply/Demand argument if a family member of yours died in a crash because of low paid incompetence.

 

This is just another example where self regulation by companies doesn't work for the greater good especially when it comes to safety. I've seen this in the medical field as well. Your Supply/Demand argument is sound but things really need to change because the result of that practice could kill allot of people. You see with Asiana some pilots can't figure out basic 'airmanship' without automation. You've took issue with those in our community but the problem is more serious with the crappy pay and standards in the real world because as you say, 'more people want to do the job'.

 

Agree with you 100% it might look good on paper but it's not the reason why.

 

Take a look at the Colgan Flight 3407 crash. I really thought our government was going to impose real changes in this industry, but look what they did, absolutely nothing. So now you need an ATP to be a first officer. Hmm, I guess ATP rated pilots don't crash airplanes! Why not make sure pay is better so that maybe that poor first officer that was operating that fateful night could've been well rested, instead of having to have another job waitressing in order to make ends meet. Management Greed and pilot nearsightedness is the reason why this industry is such a mess.

So since a cleaner job is not so glamorous and nobody wants to do it,

 

Trust me its not a glamorous job but we have people lining up to work here due to the economy (and the pay while higher than a first year F/O still sucks).