Lovely plane, let down by the default GPS fitted. They should have coded their own...

 

Are you aware how much it costs to develop, test, integrate and implement a custom gps in an aircraft that currently sells for a snip, in addition to the aircraft itself? We already provide full integration including custom graphics, lighting and custom xml programming for the RXP gauges and that took six months work on top of the aircraft design, and for which we make not a single penny. GPS addon packages cost more than the aircraft cost! Honestly what ARE you expecting for (currently) less than 16 Euros?

 

Rob - RealAir

Most people have no idea.  Go ask Jim from Flight1 how fun it was to code their G1000.  Glass with custom nav databases takes a heck of a lot of development time... with little return.  Heck you can see above Rob told us just to integrate the Duke/Legacy with the RXP took six months!

Rob, your pricing isn't strictly true, is it? The full version, which is what it would cost me is 29.95 Euros. The RXP gauges are 36.20 Euro. So... 68.98 all in.

 

The PMDG Jetstream which is a bigger aircraft, well simulated, built in FMS, the usual cost me 32.68 Euro. The PMDG 737NGX cost me 50.88 Euros. (I bet that took a long time to code, too!) It just doesn't add up. Sorry!

 

I appreciate what you've done with the addon, and I'm not saying I dislike it - I just won't buy it because I prefer the navigation equipment to be up to scratch. The fully featured version is too expensive for what it is.

the RXP products can be used in many other addons (native VC integration). You cannot use the 737 or j41 FMS in another aircraft.

 

If you fly in the US, and with RW charts then RXP is for you. The units operate identical to their RW counterparts. I initially bought the 430W and many years later added the 530W. Unlimited is not necessary for what I do.

 

Also you have to consider units sold. The PMDG NGX, while I don't know how many copies it sold, most likely sold a lot more than the Duke for example. Simply because people love their tubes. The GA crowd is a lot smaller and has always been.

 

Worst case, you don't buy the fabulous Duke and RA loses out on a sale.

Rob, your pricing isn't strictly true, is it? The full version, which is what it would cost me is 29.95 Euros. The RXP gauges are 36.20 Euro. So... 68.98 all in.

 

The PMDG Jetstream which is a bigger aircraft, well simulated, built in FMS, the usual cost me 32.68 Euro. The PMDG 737NGX cost me 50.88 Euros. (I bet that took a long time to code, too!) It just doesn't add up. Sorry!

 

I appreciate what you've done with the addon, and I'm not saying I dislike it - I just won't buy it because I prefer the navigation equipment to be up to scratch. The fully featured version is too expensive for what it is.

 

The last few in the thread was concerning the TURBINE DUKE, which IS under 16 Euros currently. Odd that you are complaining the aircraft is too expensive, when both the Mindstar and and RXP packages are over double the price of the Turbine Duke and more than the V2 Duke. In that case using your logic, why not write to RXP and Mindstar and ask them why they do not include a fully kitted out aircraft as part of their price!

 

The PMDG 737 product was $70 but is currently discounted. The Jetstream is also discounted compared to its release price.

 

While we're on the subject, the default GPS is a much maligned gauge. It is perfectly capable of solid navigation but not many bother to learn how to use it, in addition to the other IFR instruments that are also perfectly sound. 

The last few in the thread was concerning the TURBINE DUKE, which IS under 16 Euros currently. It is perfectly capable of solid navigation but not many bother to learn how to use it.

Perhaps the RealAir website is incorrect? It says as I look right now: Price: Full Version: €29.95, Upgrade price - for owners of our V1 Duke B60: €16.95. I am talking about the full version, which is what it would cost me. Moreover, I don't think your strategy of defending default gauges is going to work - the FSX Garmin GPS is not a thorough simulation and lacks many features, such as enroute editing of legs as well as programming various instrument approaches, (the default doesn't do it properly). It is out of place in an aircraft which seems to strive for realism.

Will this plane be useable in P3D V2.0..I see it's on sale..

It's the turbine version that's on sale (or was on sale).. not the regular duke V2. It's easy to confuse though..

You're defending the NGX.  Did you read my post?  You cannot use the NGX's FMS in other aircraft.  You CAN use the RXP products in a number of different aircraft (3D gauges), and in any other aircraft as a 2D popup.

 

Let's name the high end airplanes with proprietary GPS/FMS systems:

 

PMDG aircraft

Eaglesoft Citations

Milviz B737-200

Flight1 latest releases (T182/BE20/Mustang)

 

That's about's it (there's a few lite products with navigraph supported FMS)....  and there's hundreds of native payware for FSX.

 

I can use the 430W and or 530W in at least 15 products - mostly general aviation.  To ME, RXP is well worth the price - allowing me to fly online with updated charts.  And yes, there is updated RXP data out there (PM me).

Perhaps the RealAir website is incorrect? It says as I look right now: Price: Full Version: €29.95, Upgrade price - for owners of our V1 Duke B60: €16.95. I am talking about the full version, which is what it would cost me. Moreover, I don't think your strategy of defending default gauges is going to work - the FSX Garmin GPS is not a thorough simulation and lacks many features, such as enroute editing of legs as well as programming various instrument approaches, (the default doesn't do it properly). It is out of place in an aircraft which seems to strive for realism.

 

I have already explained to you that the recent posts in this thread were about the TURBINE DUKE which IS, I say again less than 16 Euros. Yes at the moment the V2 Duke is full price, and that is because we have to recoup  the time and effort that went into it. We have not ever been a bespoke GPS design team and nor are the vast majority of other addon aircraft designers in the same category. I note you have not answered my suggestion that you complain to the GPS producers and ask why they have not included a fully functioning, multi award winning aircraft along with their packages, which is what surely you would expect if you want like for like pricing.

 

In the last three weeks the V2 had three separate awards from three leading review magazines/websites and we have several thousand users who disagree with you about value. In addition, those upgrading from the V1 Duke B60 have already had over 4 years of enjoyment of it and have paid a discount for the new features which I am sorry you find not up to your demanding standards, at a price which is roughly equivalent to ONE evening out and a modest meal and drinks for two!!

I honestly have nothing against you, or RealAir. All I have is an opinion on something as a potential customer of yours, I have to say I'm a little turned off by the manner in which this has been err, "debated" purely from a potential support POV.

 

I note you have not answered my suggestion that you complain to the GPS producers and ask why they have not included a fully functioning, multi award winning aircraft along with their packages, which is what surely you would expect if you want like for like pricing.

 

The reason for this is I would never consider buying a standalone GPS full stop. I was however considering buying the Duke as I am after a small twin IFR trainer! When I watched a couple of YouTube videos I was honestly impressed, but when they got to the GPS I have to admit I was disappointed. 

 

 

 

In the last three weeks the V2 had three separate awards from three leading review magazines/websites and we have several thousand users who disagree with you about value. In addition, those upgrading from the V1 Duke B60 have already had over 4 years of enjoyment of it and have paid a discount for the new features which I am sorry you find not up to your demanding standards, at a price which is roughly equivalent to ONE evening out and a modest meal and drinks for two!!

 

I'm not doubting that it's a good aircraft and it will bring satisfaction and happiness to many. On a forum such as this members are entitled to express an opinion - each to their own as they say. What I wasn't expecting was a berating from an add-on developer because I said I wasn't impressed with one aspect of their product. Don't lecture me on what I can and can't afford, either. It's incredibly rude.

 

Anyway it's all water under the bridge. I wish you and your company success.

Hangman should understand that PMDG can make such a comprehensive airplane, and price it at a mere $70, because they likely sell X thousand more of them than any other developer.

 

I'm still hoping for a capable third party GPS for P3D that is good enough that it will be embraced by developers to be incorporated in their cockpits, much like RealAir has always provided RXP compatibility.  Early in this thread and months ago there was talk of Mindstar, and an imminent release, but nothing seems to have come of that product.

I honestly have nothing against you, or RealAir. All I have is an opinion on something as a potential customer of yours, I have to say I'm a little turned off by the manner in which this has been err, "debated" purely from a potential support POV.

 

 

The reason for this is I would never consider buying a standalone GPS full stop. I was however considering buying the Duke as I am after a small twin IFR trainer! When I watched a couple of YouTube videos I was honestly impressed, but when they got to the GPS I have to admit I was disappointed. 

 

 

I'm not doubting that it's a good aircraft and it will bring satisfaction and happiness to many. On a forum such as this members are entitled to express an opinion - each to their own as they say. What I wasn't expecting was a berating from an add-on developer because I said I wasn't impressed with one aspect of their product. Don't lecture me on what I can and can't afford, either. It's incredibly rude.

 

Anyway it's all water under the bridge. I wish you and your company success.

 

Thanks for that but there was no lecture. I was comparing the price of one thing to another, not whether you personally could afford it. The only rudeness was yours for suggesting there was some kind of dishonesty about pricing. We've been in business for fourteen years and have never been less than scrupulously honest. Thank you.

Not at all. If it costs me 29.95 to download the product which we're speaking about here in this thread, then that's how much it costs... There is nothing rude about that, it's just a fact... I appreciate we were at cross purposes and you were confused as to which add-on we were discussing, however my point remains valid in the context of my own line within this thread.

 

I don't understand why you're being so... defensive about this. After all, your other several thousand customers must be providing you with enough cash to enjoy plenty of evening meals out, and many drinks.

 

It's time to move on... I honestly wish you luck and you have my good will. I never want to see an FS developer go out of business and I strongly hope and suspect you'll be around for many years to come. Just this time, it's a "no thanks" from me. Maybe in the future that will change with v3 or other products.

 

Regards

The basic idea you are presenting, Hangman, is faulty.  The RealAir products cost what they cost, and are exceptional products.  For you to claim that the price you have to pay for a fully equipped version of the aircraft because they also take the time and trouble to fully integrate a different (and now defunct) developer's GPS that you can buy if you like is the same as claiming that if they didn't include Reality GPS integration their product would be a lot cheaper than it currently is for you.  By your logic, you'd have less to complain about if they didn't include integration for a more "realistic" GPS.  Ryan has tried to tell you that the cost of a third party GPS must be amortized over all the planes you can use it in, not simply added to the cost of the Duke.  By your logic, practically every other addon aircraft falls to the same critique, and the better ones more so, according to you, since they did such a good job on everything else.  

 

You suggest that the rest of the aircraft is high quality but the default GPS fails to live up to the standard overall.  Why pick on that one feature?  There is so much that our simulated aircraft can't really model accurately in FSX.  And the default GPS does a very good job, in fact, as Robert says.  There's little it doesn't do accurately.  If you are truly going to limit your purchases to aircraft that include more "realistic" navigation modeling, then, as pointed out, your addon list is going to be very short indeed.

 

Buy it or don't.  But to suggest that a good reason for not buying it is because RealAir didn't build a better GPS from scratch is a bit ridiculous, and the same as saying that almost every addon out there isn't worth buying.   

 

 

While we're on the subject, the default GPS is a much maligned gauge. It is perfectly capable of solid navigation but not many bother to learn how to use it, in addition to the other IFR instruments that are also perfectly sound.

 

Exactly. I plan on learning IFR flying these cold months, and the Legacy and Duke will be my platforms of choice. 

 

Real Air products are a pleasure to fly, not necessarily to program. Pre-flight planning with Plan G works perfectly fine with the available tools, and I look forward to challenging night flights through bad weather to test them!