Why are flight simmers so rude to each other?

[Ron Attwood 3,465]

Now, if I were Jim, I wouldn't know whether to be pleased with that synopsis of my character....or whether to offer you swords or pistols! :LMAO:  Have at you Sirrah! 

 

See you let the dog back in mate. :good:

[Ron Attwood 3,465]

I've just read a few posts back and see my old mate snave has been brought up. To tell the truth, he made me laugh...usually. I could see it from his point of view. If most folk here have a problem of any kind, I'm willing to bet that you've had a good old rummage round the internet/forums/check the manuals etc. for your answer. If you have no luck then you make a post. Am I right?

He had no truck with boneheads who's first thought is to ask on a forum. "hey how do I turn the engine on?????" You know the ones.

On the other side of the coin he was unnecessarily  waaaaay too abrasive. My mouth dropped open on occasions. :blink:

 

P.S. He's not really my old mate.

[HiFlyer 9,359]

I've just read a few posts back and see my old mate snave has been brought up. To tell the truth, he made me laugh...usually. I could see it from his point of view. If most folk here have a problem of any kind, I'm willing to bet that you've had a good old rummage round the internet/forums/check the manuals etc. for your answer. If you have no luck then you make a post. Am I right?

He had no truck with boneheads who's first thought is to ask on a forum. "hey how do I turn the engine on?????" You know the ones.

On the other side of the coin he was unnecessarily  waaaaay too abrasive. My mouth dropped open on occasions. :blink:

 

P.S. He's not really my old mate.

Believe it or not, in the end I kind of liked him. Once it was established I was no longer on the menu, we had some good back and forth, and he could be funny and witty as well as informative when he wanted to be. Which didn't stop my dismay at what he was still doing to others....  :unsure:

 

I think it was hurtful to the forum, even if the forum itself didn't seem to see it for much too long.

[Q_flyer 766]

Genuine honesty (given even when it can cause awkwardness) is to be respected, as Stephen touched on above.  

 

The problem is, delivering 'heavy honesty' in a way that doesn't generate conflict, is a seriously rare skill.  (I certainly don't profess to possess that skill!).

 

In my opinion, as AVSIM has (like all other communities and forums) gone through the cycles of "What's hot and what's not", we've sometimes seen 'tell it how it is' type guys celebrated, and at other times we've seen them called out, for their downright arrogance or rudeness.

 

But what really matters, to me at least, is that you can be as honest and direct as you like     - as long as you're not generating conflict.

 

That's the hard part, avoiding the C word (conflict :wink:);   if you are being uber-blunt and you are upsetting people, and causing others to get excited about what you said too, then you may just be attention seeking.... going for the rise.

 

If you can disagree with the most venerably popular viewpoint, and do it in a way that respects your fellow hobbyists, and doesn't isolate anyone or get down to personal attacks, then you're pretty special :cool:  ...... you're going to avoid conflict.

 

There aren't many people who can do that    - be challenging or perhaps direct - but stay within the confines of not causing conflict. As I said, I am not putting myself forward for the role;  I, like many others, have a long way to go .........

 

But perhaps what I'm describing is the ideal that we should strive towards.

 

Perhaps, when we're about to respond to something (or raise a point) "directly", we should ask ourselves ;-

 

Will this post - the way I am about to present it - cause conflict?

 

Thank you for tuning in to Philosophy 101, you may resume normal business.   :smile:

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Let's have a 'Vote Someone Off the Forum' system kind of like Survivor. This way the Mods can stop banning people and the people get to vote people off. Eventually there would just be Tom left on this forum so we could make him the winner of AVSIM Island... :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Let's have a 'Vote Someone Off the Forum' system kind of like Survivor. This way the Mods can stop banning people and the people get to vote people off. Eventually there would just be Tom left on this forum so we could make him the winner of AVSIM Island... :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

I have considered doing something along those lines many times. A one user, one vote system. I am the user, and I get the vote. The outcome would not be pretty, but system performance would improve by orders of magnitude. :Big Grin:

[mganz121 159]

Believe it or not, in the end I kind of liked him. Once it was established I was no longer on the menu, we had some good back and forth, and he could be funny and witty as well as informative when he wanted to be. Which didn't stop my dismay at what he was still doing to others....  :unsure:

 

I think it was hurtful to the forum, even if the forum itself didn't seem to see it for much too long.

 

Certainly one of flight sim's "characters", without a doubt. I was wondering where he went to and where he would pop up next. He had an amazing wealth of knowledge, but would not "suffer fools gladly". I do remember on a few occasions sitting back and thinking "oh oh ..... here we go", sometimes, admittedly, with a grin on my face.

 

In some ways, even though I know it would not happen, it would be great to see him back on AVSIM ..... especially with the rating system. Sadly I suspect with too many cultural differences, a younger age group and political correctness in today's world, there would be too many offended by his openness and dark humour, especially when combined with his unique ability to tell it like it is when he gets wound up. Was he a spin doctor in a previous life?  :lol:

 

Reminiscing now ...... so many "characters" over the years.

[Jeff H 63]

This is a very interesting topic.  I think there are a lot of different issues at play here.  Without a doubt, the tone of the forums has changed over the years, but then, so too has the makeup of the membership.  Way back in the early days of FS9 and before, the members here were more on the same page as it pertains to what we expected from the sim and from each other.  Folks largely viewed FS as a simulator, not a game.  Many were pilots, aspiring pilots, or had some kind of connection to aviation, be it personal or professional.  With the release of FSX, that all changed as more of the gamer crowd became involved with FS.  This segment of the audience comes with a different set of priorities that I think puts many of us old timers off.   I also see where there is more of an "I want it now" attitude that didn't always exist in the past.  I have a couple of pet peeves myself when it comes to some of things that are asked on the forum.  I am definitely of the RTFM mindset when it comes to some of the questions I see posted.  Now understand, I have no issue with helping someone out when they have clearly read the manual and/or done a search on the forum for an answer to a question, or someone who might have a difficult time understanding a concept.  What I look for is what kind of effort you've made. Questions like, "I just bought XYZ's new Vulture 201 10 minutes ago, how do I start the engine?  Where's the flap switch?" can really tweak my buttons.  Just after the release of PMDG's 747 for FS9, how many of us read posts along the lines of "this is too complicated.  I shouldn't have to spend an hour to learn about the fuel system, I just want to fly the plane.  This is BS, they should have made an easy mode for me." 

   I read a post here recently, not sure of which thread, but someone made the comment that "I'm too busy to search the forum because I've got this or that going on.  I'd rather just post a question and come back in an hour to get the answer."  Well ya know what?  We ALL have stuff going on.  Everyone here volunteers what time they have and many of us have spent countless days, weeks, months, even years learning what we know.  We put in the time and effort to learn and we're not always fond of folks who aren't willing to do the same.  This isn't, after all, your own personal support department.
Now I also realize that there are other factors to consider such as cultural and societal differences, language barriers and the like.  I DO get that and try to factor that in.  In the end though, if I do respond to a post, I try to do so with a certain level of professionalism and respect, and I expect the same in return.  If I don't get that, I just move on.  Life's too short to quibble over that sort of minutiae.  I'm a native Bostonian and our attitude is if we have an issue with you, you'll know it because we just won't have anything to do with you.  We don't waste time with the petty oneupmanship. I have learned over the years, with difficulty, lol, that being right isn't always the most important thing.  The harder part is remembering that I was a noob once, too.  Some of us have answered the same questions over and over and over, ad infinitum, and we forget that, while it may be old hat to us, things can often be very confusing to the new guy...or girl (there's my PC thing for the day.  :wacko: ) 
I think what it all boils down to is a clash of cultures, gamers vs aviation experts, and generation vs generation, each with very different expectations of the other.  And each with very different ways of communicating those expectations.  I'm not sure what the answer is.  In my point of view, I think we all need to have a bit thicker skin and realize that text based communication is far from ideal insofar as we all seem to infer a certain tone to the written word that often isn't intended.  I know this long tome has devolved to little more than a self indulgent rant, and for that I apologize, but to sum up, I'll leave you with a quote from the movie Bill and Ted's excellent adventure...
..."be excellent to each other."

 

Cheers!!  :smile:

[mganz121 159]

I read a post here recently, not sure of which thread, but someone made the comment that "I'm too busy to search the forum because I've got this or that going on.  I'd rather just post a question and come back in an hour to get the answer."  Well ya know what?  We ALL have stuff going on.  Everyone here volunteers what time they have and many of us have spent countless days, weeks, months, even years learning what we know.  We put in the time and effort to learn and we're not always fond of folks who aren't willing to do the same.  This isn't, after all, your own personal support department.

 

I run my own business. I know exactly what you are saying, and have watched it (this attitude you speak of), get progressively worse over the past years. Many people nowadays ........... just can't be bothered!

[Kattz 132]

I know that when I first came to this forum and even made my first post I angered many. If it hadn't been for the tolerance and friendship and outreaches from people like Stephen and Kyle and others I probably would not have stayed. I had lurked on the forums for many months before making any posts.

 

I remember when I first asked my question about PMDG and weather radar. I was lucky to get away with any skin left on my body. Not a good time. I think a lot of times we could communicate better with others, often times I come across as acerbic or abusive when actually none of this is in my intent.

 

Nowadays I'm content to just browse the forms and if I see something that perks my interest I'll answer or make a post. However a lot of times I just let something go because I have nothing relevant to add and there's no reason to start an argument or point something out when there's no reason for It to be pointed out as it wastes everyone's time and energy.

 

Pretty much at this time I save my posts for questions that are important to me and improving my simulation experience. If I see a place where I can help someone who's new or someone who is struggling and I have been through it and have an answer, I will make a post.

 

One of my biggest problems in communicating with people on the forum is that I have a very dry and acerbic wit and sense of humor much like a Brit. Often times this is taken the wrong way and once you put something out on the Internet it is hard to take it back it, people form opinions in their heads of you that often times are very inaccurate. Often times, postings are read and interpreted based on the feel of the posting and not necessarily what is said. Often times that leads to rudeness or misbehavior among the posters.

 

We do have a lot of people that, were you to meet these people in person, they would have none of the personality traits they exhibited online or in their emails or in their postings. Docile as mice. But the Internet is faceless and it allows bad behavior everywhere. We have some people on the forms that have what i consider the "Elvish bulletproof vest of invincibility +20." In other words, really big balls, or ovaries, or a really large inflated ego, because they know that no one can find them, touch them, or talk to them face-to-face. It's kind of like giving someone the middle finger when driving down the road. After all, what's the chances of that person is going to catch up with you and pound the living snot out of you for what you just did? Rare, slim, almost nonexistent. And that, my friends, is what enables bad behavior. Not just here, but on many, many, many countless forums everywhere. In fact, AVSIM is actually a pretty quiet place compared to some of the places that I have moderated or do moderate.

 

And that's where I stand on the subject of rudeness. I apologize for being rude, or interpreted as rude or being thought a royal arse or anything else along such lines. I've never have swatted anyone's ears back, or been intentionally rude, just to give someone a comeuppance. Sometimes it's just the way I come across. And that's just me. No harm intended. That is, unless you were a complete bloody arse and really deserved it.

 

It's the holidays. I think we should all lighten up. Maybe knock back a few pints at the local pub, spend time with the family, and maybe not worry so much about the forum. It is an important forum and very vital to a lot of our operations and communications, but in this case maybe it's time to just sit back, relax, and enjoy the holidays.

 

Kattz out.

[canuk22 29]

I say regardless of the type of forum, forum bulls are common, easy to be tough hiding behind a keyboard.  

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

I say regardless of the type of forum, forum bulls are common, easy to be tough hiding behind a keyboard.  

 

And when you run into one here, hit the report button. We love turning bull into steer.

[PigsInSpace 21]

"Why are flight simmers so rude to each other?"

 

My top three answers....

 

 

3. Because, even X-plane simmers are miffed that MS abandoned FS? 

 

2. Because there still is no sim that will give us proper seasons >and Cloud shadows at the same time...and where are the god rays?

 

And the top answer is.......

 

1. Because, there is no one else in our lives to be rude to?

[Jim Robinson 122]

Nah, it's because David Lee Roth left Van Halen and Sammy Hagar was never a fitting replacement. We were never really able to get past that...

 

True story. :smile:

[Jeff H 63]

Nah, it's because David Lee Roth left Van Halen and Sammy Hagar was never a fitting replacement. We were never really able to get past that...

 

True story. :smile:

Too funny, Jim!!  I, however, choose to take solace in the notion that Rush is still alive and kicking for 40+ years now.  That said, I think we could all benefit from a chorus of Comfortably Numb. Or maybe Kumbaya. I don't know.  :Whistle: