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Wolflikespie

Why are flight simmers so rude to each other?

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I'm serious. I come here every day and hope to see friendly conversations amongst people who share a love for a hobby. Instead, what I find (every day, mind you) are arrogant individuals who have decided that they are better than everyone else and therefore decide to flaunt it in front of the crowd. What I'm trying to say is; I see WAY too many shmucks in this community.

 

This, obviously, does not extend to everyone. The vast majority of people are friendly and helping, but those bad apples are still a problem that needs to be addressed. We are an incredibly small community, so why try to destroy someone who wants to join in the hobby? By doing so, all you do is alienate the rest of us from the perspective of that user, who will go and tell his friends that this place is bad, and the domino effect commences.

 

Frankly, I'm disheartened by what I see. Being direct to someone is fine, but the line between no-nonsense and just being a plain (insert word that rhymes with "tick" here) to people is crossed too often. What causes me more sadness, probably the most of all, is that the majority of us are adults. Some well into their 30's and 40's. Have you not left middle school? Where's the maturity? How would you like it if I told you that you were an idiot because you had an issue with something?

 

Again, this does not apply to everyone, and to those of you who are the kindhearted guys who want to share the love of this hobby to others, thank you. The bad apples, either ship up or ship out. There is no room for guys who are mean to others.

 

Rant over. Yeah, it's direct, but it needed to be said. It really did. Comments welcome. Try not to call out individuals please.

And here's a coloful illustration of the domino effect:

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When I first came to the community, brand new and still in lurk mode, I noticed a peculiarity of the community: A type of individual I have thought of ever since as a "Forum Bull"

Forum Bulls are usually people who brag openly about how "Frank" they are (which usually translates to rude)

The are often very knowledgeable, but somewhere along the line lost touch with how it once to felt to be a noob (or at least not so knowledgeable) Note: knowledgeable and "always right" have nothing at all to do with one another, a point sometimes forgotten.

Forum Bulls are guardians of orthodoxy, and are often seen leaping to the fore to slap down anyone not following proper form (proper form being judged solely by the standards of the particular bull)

Forum Bulls chase away more noobs than floods, fires, or earthquakes combined, are unhealthy for forum atmosphere, can be bad for ones blood pressure and are probably fattening.

Many forums have one outstanding Forum Bull (they are solitary, and require a wide range free of competitors) who is tolerated apparently because they are knowledgeable and have been around longer than God. Accordingly, they often get away with things that others could not dream of. They are also often surrounded by small groups of Satellite Bulls, AKA "Mini-Bulls" that cheer them on." (they have smaller horns)

Most people learn to avoid them.

Strangely, they seem inexplicably numerous in Flight sim forums, which scientists surmise may be their natural habitat..

If you, or anyone in your family spot a Forum Bull, do not attempt to approach them, they are heavily armed with arch comments which are to be considered extremely dangerous. Call the appropriate authorities immediately such as the Police, Homeland security, or a Forum Moderator via the appropriate channels! :mellow:

Thank You. :rolleyes:

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If you, or anyone in your family spot a Forum Bull, do not attempt to approach them, they are heavily armed with arch comments which are to be considered extremely dangerous. Call the appropriate authorities immediately such as the Police, Homeland security, or a Forum Moderator via the appropriate channels!

 

Bravo  :clapping:

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When I first came to the community, brand new and still in lurk mode, I noticed a peculiarity of the community: A type of individual I have thought of ever since as a "Forum Bull"

 

Forum Bulls are usually people who brag openly about how "Frank" they are (which usually translates to rude)

 

The are often very knowledgeable, but somewhere along the line lost touch with how it once to felt to be a noob (or at least not so knowledgeable) Note: knowledgeable and "always right" have nothing at all to do with one another, a point sometimes forgotten.

 

Forum Bulls are guardians of orthodoxy, and are often seen leaping to the fore to slap down anyone not following proper form (proper form being judged solely by the standards of the particular bull)

 

Forum Bulls chase away more noobs than floods, fires, or earthquakes combined, are unhealthy for forum atmosphere, can be bad for ones blood pressure and are probably fattening.

 

Many forums have one outstanding Forum Bull (they are solitary, and require a wide range free of competitors) who is tolerated apparently because they are knowledgeable and have been around longer than God. Accordingly, they often get away with things that others could not dream of. They are also often surrounded by small groups of Satellite Bulls, AKA "Mini-Bulls" that cheer them on." (they have smaller horns)

 

Most people learn to avoid them.

 

Strangely, they seem inexplicably numerous in Flight sim forums, which scientists surmise may be their natural habitat..

 

If you, or anyone in your family spot a Forum Bull, do not attempt to approach them, they are heavily armed with arch comments which are to be considered extremely dangerous. Call the appropriate authorities immediately such as the Police, Homeland security, or a Forum Moderator via the appropriate channels! :mellow:

 

Thank You. :rolleyes:

 

Excellently put, and SO true!

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The reason we have forum bulls is becuase you have the certain breed of noob that asks that one question that has been beaten to death in the previous 100 threads without bothering to do a basic search, sometimes they ask the same question over and over after blatently disregarding a sticky that addresses the issue in the first place. Yes sometimes forum bulls go over the top but IMHO they are a necessary evil to keep the dead horse from being beaten to a watery pulp.

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The reason we have forum bulls is becuase you have the certain breed of noob that asks that one question that has been beaten to death in the previous 100 threads without bothering to do a basic search, sometimes they ask the same question over and over after blatently disregarding a sticky that addresses the issue in the first place. Yes sometimes forum bulls go over the top but IMHO they are a necessary evil to keep the dead horse from being beaten to a watery pulp.

 

I agree that the laziness to do a search by some (it is not just noobs!) is frustrating...... but that in itself is not an excuse or a reason for a Forum Bull to snort, take 10 paces back, and make the aggressive charge towards the noob you mention. 

 

It is perfectly possible to say "Have you tried searching the forums for that answer?" without having to be sarcastic or aggressive or rude.

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Whenever I encounter these folks I always think about this site http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/

 

Unfortunately, this type of attitude and the tolerance of it has turned me away from many a forum.

 

It is most definitely not unique this community. In fact, and this is just my opinion, but I'm going to say that this community has a lot of thin skinned folks who pay right into the game of these "bulls". Maybe it's just that I'm originally from NYC. ;)

 

A forum that collectively overreacts by aggressively attacking forum who quenoobs that has already been abte stipic iabatedthat I leave. I just don't see a reason to associate with a group like that.

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Yes well you are always going to have noobs, and you are always going to have people that don't search.....That will never change.

 

Perhaps when you find you are in excess of +5000 or +10000 posts and these menial things are what bother you then maybe you should find something else to do with your time. If these are the sort of things that you have problems with in your life then I wish I had your lives.....Doesn't seem like you have any real problems.

 

I can think of a million other things in the world to worry about.

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This thread actually serves no more purpose than the one that inspired it. The very assumption that it's all about the newb being picked on by the old timers implies that the old timers don't have feelings too. You "victims" should give some consideration to what it might feel like to hang around a place like this for 10 yrs or so dispensing hard-won advice based on experience and doing so cheerfully and in good faith only to have it thrown back in your face time and time again. Rarely is the given advice even acknowledged and in most cases you never hear back whether the advice solved the problem, even more rarely is any gratitude expressed.

 

It ain't all about you...

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I Have been lurking on Avsim since the days of Compuserve and have posted little if at all. I agree with you 100%. I feel genuinely sorry for the newbe that just needs simple advice, but you can't blame them for not wanting to ever come back. If he isn't being accused of being a troll he's being told how many post he has contributed, and, if not in a high enough number, basically is being told to hit the road. There are some members that are genuinely Great people here and really enjoy helping people. But......... It really is no wonder the Hobby, Sport, Genre is starting to die out. I believe I will get accused and made fun of for this but,,,,,,, I'm Just Sayin. 

 

             Danny G.

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They are also often surrounded by small groups of Satellite Bulls, AKA "Mini-Bulls" that cheer them on." (they have smaller horns)

Too funny! Sad, but funny because it is so true!

 

In the South(opposed to NYers)we can make the same points but you may never know that we might be pulling "ya'lls" chain because we do it so politely.

 

I just always wonder what is the motivation for the highbrow attitude - if something bothers them why do they return over and over or comment at all. IMO - Just answer the questions (or point them in the right direction) even if asked many times or just do not comment. Seems pretty simple.

 

I personally decided a few months ago to just become more of a "lurker" and avoid commenting.(mostly)

 

Glad it is not just me that is "thin skinned".

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This thread actually serves no more purpose than the one that inspired it. The very assumption that it's all about the newb being picked on by the old timers implies that the old timers don't have feelings too. You "victims" should give some consideration to what it might feel like to hang around a place like this for 10 yrs or so dispensing hard-won advice based on experience and doing so cheerfully and in good faith only to have it thrown back in your face time and time again. Rarely is the given advice even acknowledged and in most cases you never hear back whether the advice solved the problem, even more rarely is any gratitude expressed.

 

It ain't all about you...

 

My argument wasn't focused on the "us vs. them" platform. We are a community as a whole, and as I said, there are enough bad apples to warrant discussion. The "forum bull" is not just limited to old timers, I know that the younger guys can be just as mean, if not more so, than the older guys.

 

As for giving out advice, it's always appreciated by someone. If it doesn't happen to be the guy you were specifically giving the advice to, so be it. I can guarantee you that someone out there has the same problem, will look for advice, see your post, and thank you. Just because they don't quote you in a post and explicitly thank you doesn't mean they're disrespecting you. Granted, the guys who quote over and over again and can never quite get the gist of what the adviser is giving tend to get old. However, my point was that even if they're being a bit long-winded, it doesn't mean that they are doing it on purpose. It's similar to dropping a bunch of coins in the street and they fall out of your hand again when someone else tries to help pick them up (or run away with them, depending on what kind of town you live in). It's not being done on purpose, but it just happens.

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Some of the replies.... Where is that forehead slap smiley hiding? :Doh: :lol:

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My Grandfather had a saying...

 

"Throw a rock at a pack of hound dogs, and the one that gets hit hollers"

 

:wink:

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The reason we have forum bulls is becuase you have the certain breed of noob that asks that one question that has been beaten to death in the previous 100 threads without bothering to do a basic search

 

1. I get a uiautomation.dll error 2. How do I fly an ILS  3. I get an OOM error 4. My favorite. IM BUILDING A NEW COMPUTER IS it  GOOD ENOUGH TO RUN FSX/P3D. :) There are many more.

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1. I get a uiautomation.dll error 2. How do I fly an ILS 3. I get an OOM error 4. My favorite. IM BUILDING A NEW COMPUTER IS it GOOD ENOUGH TO RUN FSX/P3D. :) There are many more.

 

If it truly bothers anyone (I can't really see any reason why it should especially when the questions aren't being directly specifically at any individual 99.99% of the time) then why not just step aside and let someone who is willing answer the question. While they're at it they can possibly teach the new poster how to fish.

 

I actually don't use the search feature built into AVSIM because I don't find that it is of much use or is able to rank results based on relevance. I would rather not click through hundreds of posts to possibly find an answer. I get much better results by going to Google and funny enough it usually finds the right topic in AVSIM for me on the first try.

 

Sometimes, it can be fun to share someone else's new discovery and encourage them. I know that isn't up everyone's alley, but hey it's your hobby to kill.

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Simply put, there a__holes everywhere you go. The sim community is no different.

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1. I get a uiautomation.dll error 2. How do I fly an ILS 3. I get an OOM error 4. My favorite. IM BUILDING A NEW COMPUTER IS it GOOD ENOUGH TO RUN FSX/P3D. :) There are many more.

My favorite almost weekly asked question, "What is the best AI program?"

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Perhaps when you find you are in excess of +5000 or +10000 posts and these menial things are what bother you then maybe you should find something else to do with your time. If these are the sort of things that you have problems with in your life then I wish I had your lives.....Doesn't seem like you have any real problems.



I can think of a million other things in the world to worry about.

 

Very very well said...Amen.

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If it truly bothers anyone (I can't really see any reason why it should especially when the questions aren't being directly specifically at any individual 99.99% of the time) then why not just step aside and let someone who is willing answer the question. While they're at it they can possibly teach the new poster how to fish.

 

I actually don't use the search feature built into AVSIM because I don't find that it is of much use or is able to rank results based on relevance. I would rather not click through hundreds of posts to possibly find an answer. I get much better results by going to Google and funny enough it usually finds the right topic in AVSIM for me on the first try.

 

Sometimes, it can be fun to share someone else's new discovery and encourage them. I know that isn't up everyone's alley, but hey it's your hobby to kill.

 

I'll bring up a good example from the PMDG forum: there is a bug in the cold and dark panel state for the 777 that causes the master caution light to be stuck lit and shortly after it was released (and for a few weeks after) you only have to go back one or two pages to see at least 15+ threads regarding this exact problem which really did clutter up that sub forum, and people still occasionally post this problem without checking the issue thread. Some questions get posted so often that you don't even need to use the search funtion, just go back a page or two to find multiple threads on the same exact topic.

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Actually I find most flight sim forums quite tame and enjoyable compared to many forums on the web.  I used to hang out in certain car forums that was full of uneducated, spoiled, know it all's, whose only contribution to society was the decline of civilization.

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Simply put, there a__holes everywhere you go. The sim community is no different.

I guess the phrase "Forum Bull" is so closely related in my mind with the flight sim community because it was in the community (on another forum) here where I encountered my first example, and the impression was imprinted strongly in my mind.

 

Having some random stranger howling at you about what an idiot you are after you enthusiastically ask a simple question kind of sticks with you. Especially when time proves him so absolutely wrong, despite all of his supposed "Knowledge" and experience.

 

I've since seen several other examples in various forums since then (all flight sim related!) and there seems to be a certain species of that type that is unique in my experience, most especially in the way they are tolerated.

 

Even though the example that first caused me to coin that phrase was from a few years ago, it colored the whole way I thought and felt about the hobby for quite some time. Once bitten, twice shy. (and of course there is the example of watching others get jumped on, never to be seen again)

 

Maybe I have PTSD! (Forum Edition)  :blink:

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My favorite almost weekly asked question, "What is the best AI program?"

I already miss those, it's been a while since the last one has been asked... :P

To be honest, all those repetitive questions (the newest one probably being "I can't activate FSX") can be boring or tiresome, but instead of making rude, maybe even hurtful comments one should rather just keep silent. As someone said, there are such people (although only one or two come to my mind immediately, who seem to have that attitude), but those kind of people is everywhere, so I doubt there is an unusual high percentage of mean people here than anywhere else, it's just that those are quite present in the repsective forums, and quick to make helpless comments.

 

I think it is worth mentioning, though, that some of the "rudeness" is simply a misunderstanding due to language differences. I've stated this on various occasions already, but I think it is good to keep this in mind: Some things will more likely be understood as rude, just because we can't judge the poster's intentions based on his the expression in his tone and his face), adn some will sound perfectly normal to you in your own language, but when translated to English (and perhaps re-translated to another language) it can turn be understood wrongly!

The key is to show patience, and I strongly believe that if you can't keep your sarcasm out of a post, don't post at all (or at least not only a sarcastic but not helpful reply)!

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I see people here that have 3,5,8, 10+ years in this forum, it's normal to see this question every day, people that ask this type of question have 2-3 weeks or days in this forum. That's why they come here, because they had a problem and they've been searching for an answer. 

 

DON'T EVER FORGET:

 

Every one of us have come here for the first time with a stupid question, asked before 1000 times, and we all received our answer, I think it's fair we help others, until they will integrate in our small community!

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Treat people as you expect to be treated yourself simple as that. Treat like dirt get it back don't complain.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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