The fact that somebody mentioned the words "15 miles" and "tower" in a newspaper article does not necessarily mean.....

 

Important point.  And going back to posts earlier in this topic will show that the writer was off-base in stating other supposed key facts as well.  Typical.  

 

By the way, for those who read the originally linked article the day this topic was started, if you go back to the link you will see that the original article has been completely rewritten, and all the trashed facts in the original have been removed in the re-write.  Wish I had cut-and-pasted the entire text.  I did cut-and-paste excerpts of the original in some of my posts in this topic and if you look those up and go back to the link you will see those excerpts no longer exist as the article appears today.

 

Funny, last week the evening CBS national news anchor stated: "...today Michelle Obama celebrated her 50th birthday in the White House."  And he read it as a flowing sentence just that way.  My wife and I both instantly cracked up.  What ever happened to term limits?  There are countless ways that could have been stated that would not have sounded like she had celebrated 50 birthdays in the White House, which is just the way it sounded as he read it.  I just love the press (not).

Lol. Quote from a newspaper on an aviation matter. Surely you jest. Do you really think a newspaper writer knows the difference between a 'tower' and 'approach'? I'll also tell you how it works in the 'RW'. In the real world, when I have to explain something to the people behind my flightdeck door, anything that has to do with ATC is from the 'tower'. Whether it is a delay or a matter regarding the tower, approach or center, we call it 'ATC' or 'Tower' because we need to explain things in terms that your grandmother can understand. So your take that there must be radar in the tower cab is based on a newspaper article written by a layperson for laypeople using layterms.

 

Normally when we are cleared for a visual approach, the conversation with the -Approach- controller will go something like this.

 

Approach - "Sexy 123, Branson at your ten oh clock, one five miles, report it in sight."

Me - "Sexy 123 has the field in sight."

Approach - "Sexy 123 cleared for the visual, runway three two, contact tower one two eight point one fife,"

Me - "Over to tower, goodnight."

 

The fact that somebody mentioned the words "15 miles" and "tower" in a newspaper article does not necessarily mean the tower must have a radar repeater. The word fifteen was most likely recorded on the approach frequency, which a non-aviation newspaper journalist would hold no distinction with local control, aka 'tower'.

Ok Kevin---I give. You could be correct about the media. Couple of serious questions as I have not flown much out of my area. 1. What do you fly? 2. Just a guess how many airports of the size of Branson (%) would have an ILS and GPS approach but no tower Radar? I am also aware that the ILS may or may not be activated in visual conditions. I have heard on more than one occasion pilots requesting the tower to turn it on.

 

 

Thanks,

Ron

Ok Kevin---I give. You could be correct about the media. Couple of serious questions as I have not flown much out of my area. 1. What do you fly? 2. Just a guess how many airports of the size of Branson (%) would have an ILS and GPS approach but no tower Radar? I am also aware that the ILS may or may not be activated in visual conditions. I have heard on more than one occasion pilots requesting the tower to turn it on.

 

 

Thanks,

Ron

1. E190

2. No idea. My point is there was nothing in the article that should have been taken to mean that the tower had a D-Brite or not. Even assuming that it does, the local controller probably isn't sitting in front of it paying attention to it. It sits up high or to the side somewhere. His main job is looking out the window to clear planes to land or takeoff. The repeater is only there to assist in situation awareness like spotting planes in the pattern or inbound vfr targets. The last thing on his mind would be to watch to see if the 737 on final drops off 5 miles away on the Dbrite.

 

I've only ever had to have a discussion with a controller about turning on an ILS when an airport was being turned around and I was the first one landing in the new direction. The ILS's are kept on all the time as far as I can tell. Why should they turn it off? People use it as a backup. They never know who is going to want to tune it in and use it. And if they turn it off, they would have to issue a notam.

 

 

Just a guess how many airports of the size of Branson (%) would have an ILS and GPS approach but no tower Radar?

 

 There are many airports that don't have a radar at all and many others that only have a limited feed from a distant radar source..  Think any airports within mountainous terrain. KevinAu is very correct about the ILS, they are kept on unless NOTAM'd for any reason or when swapping ends with a runway change.

Thanks for the info, and the swapping of the runways makes sense.

 

 

 

Thanks,

Ron

They were cleared visual for runway 14. There is no ILS on runway 14, only on runway 32.

 

They reported the runway in sight, which on one hand would raise concern, if it were me... but given good visibility it's not impossible to see runway lights 15nm away and sitting isolated with nothing but trees and hills around it for miles.

 

 

given good visibility it's not impossible to see runway lights 15nm away

 

Interesting comment.  In good weather with average visibility and on somewhat the same heading you might also think the Branson tower could see the landing lights come on at that distance.  Wonder if these two airports have ever confused other pilots at night?  Not necessarily a wrong-airport landing, but a whoops... almost.

They were cleared visual for runway 14. There is no ILS on runway 14, only on runway 32.

 

 

 

 

Even if they would have loaded the visual app, they would have had the airport, distance and extended center line for reference. This way they could have cross referenced what they were seeing.

Even if they would have loaded the visual app, they would have had the airport, distance and extended center line for reference. This way they could have cross referenced what they were seeing.

I wasn't discussing what they were capable of doing to aid themselves in their approach. I merely wanted to clear up in this discussion that the runway they were cleared for did not have an ILS system on it as some seemed to think it did.

R14 at KBBG does have a GPS approach with LPV, so not sure why +/- ILS is an issue.

It doesn't matter if it had an ILS or not. If they would've backed it up with an approach or created an extended centerline from the runway, tune up a VOR and cross reference it with what you see or just load the RNAV, etc. It's too easy to mess things up on a visual without backing it up. Imagine flying into hundreds of different airports month after month. You can't know them all by memory. That's why the regulations and SOPs are clear about always backing up a visual approach. I always do plus it's a good way to CYA.

AP: Airline pilots land at the wrong airport more often than you might think

 

Article linked below.  Interesting and amazing at the same time...

 

http://www.insidesocal.com/aviation/2014/02/10/ap-airline-pilots-land-at-the-wrong-airport-more-often-than-you-might-think/