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FPS Increase in VC w/ 2D Popup


bob34

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I've been tweaking - as usual - FPS on my sytem and have a consistent 30fps using the settings Ryan posted for Nvidia Inspector on the 4Xs settings.

 

CPU = 4.0ghz 8-core

GPU = Nvidia GTX 660

 

VAS monitor has me w/ 1500mb free - so no issues there.

 

I have 30fps outside the aircraft.

In the VC if have a frustrating 9 to 15fps - over land, over water - doesn't matter.

 

When I open a 2d popup in the VC, such as one of the FMC's - FPS jumps up to 25.

I doesn't matter where I drag the 2D popup, I have a big FPS increase wiht the 2D window open.

 

Any logical explanation for that?

 

By the way, I have 8fps in the performance section for the VC displays.

 

Help/suggestions? Thanks.

Bob Donovan - KBOS

  • Hardware: i7 11700k on ROG Strix Z590 ► Asus ROG GeForce 3070 ►FDS 737 FMC ► VRInsight 737 Overhead ► GoFlight TQ6 ADV ► Thrustmaster Warthog
  • Software: P3D ► MSFS ► XP11 ► DCS World
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It still has to render the VC "behind" the 2d popup, what it no longer has to deal with is calculating the position of every "hotspot" that your mouse pointer could hover over in the VC cockpit while your pointer is in the 2d window.  Those calculations I am told are complex and not well optimized in FSX (think, "my view just shifted 35 degrees left and 12 degrees up and 14 inches in the x, 2 in the y and -8 inches in the z direction in space, where exactly on the screen is that knob right now" :) ), and as your view is slewing around the VC cockpit, the program has to continuously plot the position of every visible hotspot you could click on.  These coordinate calculations are very CPU intensive and how they effect performance can easily be demonstrated by running FSX in a window view and noting the difference in FPS with the mousepointer both in the window, and when you move it out and the calculations no longer need to be done.  Alternately you see this same jump in framerate if you don't move the mouse pointer for a few seconds and when the pointer disappears and the calcs no longer need to be made, Voila!  Huge jump in frame rate.

 

When I am running in full screen, and on something like an approach and I need decent FPS flying into a 3rd party airport, I will quickly select the things I need to with the mouse (or keyboard hotkeys) and then "park" my mouse pointer in the extreme upper left corner, which is the same as moving the pointer out of the window if running in windowed view.  This gets you your higher FPS back instantly without having to wait the 4 seconds for the pointer to disappear.  

 

When you popup a 2d window like the FMC, the hotspots are less dynamic and literally just static hotspots and so no calculations are necessary, hence the large jump in framerate.

 

If someone released a 3rd party program that somehow greatly optimized how the hotspots in the VC cockpit are calculated, I do believe that that would solve 99% of complaints about low frame rate in VC cockpits, and make that programmer rich overnight, because I would pay $50 for that :)

David Obando

Home Airport KSFO
System: Windows 11 Pro x64 22H2, Intel I9-13900KS Watercooled, Asus Maximus Z690 Extreme Motherboard, 32 Gb Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR5 5600, ASUS RTX 4090 OC Edition, 4Tb NVME m.2 Array (2Tb x 2), Aorus FV43U 43" Display (144Mhz), Corsair Ax1600i powersupply, Marvel AQC107 10Gb Network adaptor, Comcast 1Gb Internet Service, Corsair 7000D Airflow Case 7x140mm, 4x120mm cooling fans.

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If someone released a 3rd party program that somehow greatly optimized how the hotspots in the VC cockpit are calculated, I do believe that that would solve 99% of complaints about low frame rate in VC cockpits, and make that programmer rich overnight, because I would pay $50 for that :)

 

I would too!

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It would be interesting if a PMDG programmer could respond to this theory and say:

Yes, you indeed get a FPS boost because of what was stated here, or it really doesn't matter because of something else.

 

I noticed PMDG doesn't respond to any posts (unless something is really inflammatory).

 

Time to start some trouble: 

When is Update 1 coming out?

How many copies did you sell of the 777?

Where is the 2D panel?

When is the 747 V2 coming out?

Where is the  LD757?

 

 

Paul Gugliotta

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Did they ever tell how many copies of any of their products they sold?  Or did any other Software house gave this kind of informations?  I think that asid the first one all the other questions will never be answered even if i would like the 757 as welll:D After of course the 77-300 and 747 v2.

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If someone released a 3rd party program that somehow greatly optimized how the hotspots in the VC cockpit are calculated, I do believe that that would solve 99% of complaints about low frame rate in VC cockpits, and make that programmer rich overnight, because I would pay $50 for that :)

 

I've been clamoring for this for years, and fortunately there is a permanent fix:  Prepar3D V2 ;o)

 

Beyond that Ryan of PMDG says the problem is that FSX needs to have its own '3D' mouse pointer in game as is the case in most modern 3D games to get around the problem that you described well.

 

It's nice to see this issue disappear, and I don't know why that is the case in Prepar3D except that perhaps the fact the CPU is more available to handle the complex calculations involved in the 2D pointer in the 3D environment since so much work has been offloaded to the GPU in Prepar3D.   I can attest the RA Turbine Duke does not show the issue in P3DV2 whereas it is quite prominent in FSX.  We'll see if that holds up when PMDG stuff debuts legally for P3DV2.

Noel

System:  7800x3D, Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, Noctua NH-U12A, MSI Pro 650-P WiFi, G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000, WD NVMe 2Tb x 1, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 1, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM1000W PSU, Win11 Home, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Case, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frame Time Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320nx, WT 787X

 

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It would be interesting if a PMDG programmer could respond to this theory and say:

Yes, you indeed get a FPS boost because of what was stated here, or it really doesn't matter because of something else.

It isn't actually a theory, but a confirmed fact stated many times over in the past by both 3rd party developers and FSX programmers. It's one of those intrinsic "fsx issues" that's fixed within the fabric of the original programming. An FSX issue In the same category as when you switch to the cabin view in a PMDG aircraft and you get a giant clipping bubble that prevents anything in a sphere of about 6' diameter around your eyepoint from being rendered; So if you place the eyepoint in the window seat thinking you can get a nice view out the window graphic, what you actually get is a giant hole in the side of the aircraft and no seats around you.

 

The issue isn't if PMDG causes problems like this and the frame drop in VC, but if its possible for them, or anyone, to fix the problems like this that are not their fault and actually inherent in the original FSX programming.

 

I think its appropriate for us as customers to be critical in a constructive way, and to be discerning consumers as this is what I think drove/drives PMDG to create such wonderfully detailed products, but at the same time we should be informed and saavy enough to know what is a PMDG shortcoming, and what is an FSX "built in anomaly" that can't simply be coded around.

 

With these perspectives in mind both sides can more easily recognize that there would be great value in product that could be sold to address these issues, and that people would gladly pay for. Why spend $1000 dollars for new graphics hardware when you can get literally twice the potential benefit of about 10fps increase with a $39.99 PMDG add-on/fix? And yes, there is a huge difference between 15fps and 25. :)

 

...and yes Mr. Randazzo, I am officially begging for you to please do this lol! :)

David Obando

Home Airport KSFO
System: Windows 11 Pro x64 22H2, Intel I9-13900KS Watercooled, Asus Maximus Z690 Extreme Motherboard, 32 Gb Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR5 5600, ASUS RTX 4090 OC Edition, 4Tb NVME m.2 Array (2Tb x 2), Aorus FV43U 43" Display (144Mhz), Corsair Ax1600i powersupply, Marvel AQC107 10Gb Network adaptor, Comcast 1Gb Internet Service, Corsair 7000D Airflow Case 7x140mm, 4x120mm cooling fans.

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Why spend $1000 dollars for new graphics hardware when you can get literally twice the potential benefit of about 10fps increase with a $39.99 PMDG add-on/fix? And yes, there is a huge difference between 15fps and 25. :)

 

I've dialogued in detail w/ Ryan M. of PMDG about this issue and suggested a few potential approaches to how to mitigate this and his response was clearly in the negative for several decent reasons.   One idea I had was to in effect create a 2D silhouette of the mouse pointer that would sit between the mouse point and background, effectively acting like a 2D popup.  When you press the left mouse button the 2D window would disappear so the mouse pointer could interact w/ the VC cockpit underneath.

 

FSX absolutely will go away some time in the not so distant future at least from the point of view of new development for it.   You might give P3DV2 a whirl if you haven't already which eliminates the problem so far on high end hardware w/ the one example I gave.  We should see how PMDG products perform in P3DV2 hopefully in the not too distant future.  Quite frankly, and despite its warts, I find FSX now dull by comparison and don't use it, and I'm as huge a fan of PMDG (T7=aeroliciousness!) as the next simmer.  I'll use V2 for 2 weeks or so then try an FSX plan and end up stopping the plan before arrival.   Visually V2 seems much more realistic, even w/ poor quality AA withstanding.   

 

A no-cost practical solution if you fly in full screen mode is to just bring the top menu bar up by hitting the Alt key, then 'park' your cursor there immediately when done using.  This habit for me developed very quickly and before long it became my default behavior w/o thinking about it.  In fact, it's taken me a few weeks to stop doing that in P3D V2 since as I say it's a non issue.  Any 2D panel seemed work the same, though I noticed on occasion the ATC transparent window didn't work as reliably presumably because I wasn't hovering over the right part.   

Noel

System:  7800x3D, Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, Noctua NH-U12A, MSI Pro 650-P WiFi, G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000, WD NVMe 2Tb x 1, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 1, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM1000W PSU, Win11 Home, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Case, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frame Time Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320nx, WT 787X

 

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Noel,

As I said when we conversed about this via tickets - I don't understand why your cursor doesn't automatically hide when you leave it alone for a few seconds in full screen mode. That has the exact same effect as parking the cursor outside of the 3D area. It certainly does it for me here.

Ryan Maziarz
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For fastest support, please submit a ticket at http://support.precisionmanuals.com

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Noel,

 

As I said when we conversed about this via tickets - I don't understand why your cursor doesn't automatically hide when you leave it alone for a few seconds in full screen mode. That has the exact same effect as parking the cursor outside of the 3D area. It certainly does it for me here.

Yes Ryan of course, I'm sure most everyone notices this already myself included that's how they can tell there's a problem w/ the mouse pointer, and of course watching the same effect when the pointer is hovering over a 2D popup.  I don't like the 5 second period (that's 110 feet of roll at taxi speeds) where frame rate really does tank significantly while I'm waiting for the pointer to disappear, so I park the pointer immediately.  The effect of this is in the range of 20-35% of frame rate which is very significant. 

Noel

System:  7800x3D, Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, Noctua NH-U12A, MSI Pro 650-P WiFi, G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000, WD NVMe 2Tb x 1, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 1, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM1000W PSU, Win11 Home, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Case, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frame Time Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320nx, WT 787X

 

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