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klamal

Thinking about the Flight1 King Air...

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So, as the title says, I'm thinking about getting the F1 King Air.  I have a couple questions before I do.  

 

First, I currently do not own rudder pedals.  I have the Saitek Cessna yoke and throttle quadrant but did not opt for rudder pedals as up til now, I've flown only "tube liners" and they don't really require it.  Well, I do have the Q400 too and get away with it there(without auto rudder).  I do have a separate joystick that I use for my rudder/steering control though obviously this is not easy to do when you need to also control throttle input.

 

Second, is it possible to setup and use with just a single Saitek throttle quadrant?  My plan would be to assign one physical lever to two virtual(i.e. 1 physical throttle lever to both throttles for the aircraft).  Is this doable?

 

Third, I've read this is "heavy" on a system.  I of course have to tune things down to run the NGX/T7 like anyone else to prevent OOM and am wondering how this is in relation to those?  I'm assuming it's going to be less VAS than PMDG but is it?

 

Fourth, what do you use to flight plan with it?  I have PFPX but I don't see any templates for anything other than airline stuff.  What do you do for fuel planning and such?

 

That's all I can think of for now.  Thanks!


Oh, I should also mention I am using DX10.  I believe there are no issues with it there either from what I've read, right?  Do cockpit shadows work?

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Works great for me using saitek throttle and FSUIPC. I enter the FP manually in the Garmin G1000. Uses RW navdata. I dont have that ppfx thing. Dont need it. Frames are good on my computer and I dont use DX-10 but assume it would be fine.

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This is a superb plane!  It had some teething problems which they addressed with a few SP's.

 

It's really really good.  Full LPV/WAAS guidance for RNAV (GPS) approaches, really nice instrument lighting.  Navigraph compatible. VNAV "banana" (note VNAV not modeled but the little arc shows up to display when you'll reach altitude when climbing/descending.)  It's very fast for a twin turboprop - I usually get 320 KTAS at altitude.... FL260 seems to be around the sweet spot for speed.  The thing flies by the numbers (perf charts are available).  There's a maintenance module type thingy and there are failures due to abuse etc.  Lotus style landing/taxi light too.

 

Downsides are the no vnav modelling, no airway entries (by that I mean you can't add an airway to your FP - you have to manually enter the fixes along the route).

 

I don't have split throttle but others have it working fine.

 

I believe someone made a fuel calculator spreadsheet avail at their simforums.  I don't use PPFX either.... just gas and go after looking at winds and weather along my route of flight.

 

VAS - a bit heavy, but no worse than the NGX, and fps are actually decent, a bit better than NGX (I don't have T7 so I can't compare).  The FPS are significantly better than their old Citation Mustang - that thing was a fps hog.

 

I'd say it's the best fully featured turboprop on the market but I'm a bit biased because I love GA.  I know a lot of guys enjoy that Majestic Dash 8.

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I wish they offered a classic steam gauge version, I don't like flying GA planes with glass panels, that's what I fly big iron for.

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It's a really a fun aircraft to fly one cons is no custom waypoint.

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Thanks for the info so far guys...I am close to pulling the trigger on something soon.

 

My biggest concern with the KA is its resource usage.  What settings are you guys using with this aircraft?  Autogen settings?  LOD?  If I go this route, I want to have at least the same settings as I have with the Aerosoft Airbus X.  Right now with that, I'm running LOD 6.5 w/ Autogen density set to 4 and can do pretty good with that.  VAS doesn't get too high and I have never come close to OOM.  What about those settings with the KA?

 

Due to the resources part, I've also been looking at the RealAir Duke v2 instead as I think that will be much less resource intensive.  My biggest question with that is can one get by well enough without getting a RealityXP 430/530?  What would getting the RealityXP add?  With the default, can you still fly to any waypoints that would be created by a flight plan generator(PFPX is what I use) or is this lacking data?  With the Duke or any GA a/c of this size/equipment, you don't fly SIDs/STARs, do you? (That seems like a really dumb question but I have never flown GA in FS so this is a whole new playing field for me).  I guess I'm asking that because I don't think default GPS will contain SID/STAR info, right?  What about RealityXp?  Does it?  Or, again, are SID/STARs mainly just for the airlines?

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You'll have to run it at whatever you run your NGX with. The king air is better on fps but about the same on VAS.

 

The G1000 is pretty complex - far better than default g1000....

 

The Duke 2.0 - one of my favorite planes of all. It's a piston though - much slower than the king air.

 

With RXP and updated navdata (PM me) you can basically do the same as you can in the king air. Both the Garmin 530W and Garmin G1000 are similar but also different. Some GA will fly SIDS/STARS it just depends on the aircraft. Duke May or may not be assigned depending on where it's flying.

 

Both RXP 530W and the king air's G1000 will accept SIDS/STARS

 

The RXP allows you to amend flight plans while in flight - one of my biggest gripes with stock G1000. You can also fly RNAV (GPS) approaches with LPV (vertical guidance - typically lower minimums).

 

One thing I'm pretty sure you can't use PPFX to load a FP into RXP - you enter the manually. In fact I enter them manually into the G1000 too.

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I hear the Flight 1 KA200 is pretty nice. Another option is to hold out for the MilViz King Air 350 that is not far from release. There will be 2 versions released separately: Proline 21 and steam gauge. The external model and VC are second to none. Just a thought.

 

Todd

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You'll have to run it at whatever you run your NGX with. The king air is better on fps but about the same on VAS.

The G1000 is pretty complex - far better than default g1000....

 

Yeah, so that's really what's making me lean towards the Duke.  If I'm not flying with the purpose of moving people from A to B, then I want to enjoy the scenery more and be able to mix in as much photo real too without worrying too much about VAS like I have to do w/ the NGX.  The KA is not much of a departure from airliner flying - that's both good and bad for me because that means it would be somewhat more comfortable and what I'm used to but that's also what I'm trying to break away from too I think.  I'm kinda getting bored of locking myself in to just airline routes(Yes, I know I could take the NGX anywhere and just pretend but I don't like to do that.  I stick to real world airline routes with actual type aircraft and at their scheduled times).  So, I'm looking for the freedom of just flying anywhere and being able to get into some airports that right now are just not possible.

 

 

 


The Duke 2.0 - one of my favorite planes of all. It's a piston though - much slower than the king air.

 

Yeah, I'm totally ok with that.  I'm not looking for speed as a top criteria though I do think I want to have a twin and want to be faster than a 172/cherokee. My biggest criteria here is something that is as close to NGX depth/quality as you can get in GA twins.

 

 


One thing I'm pretty sure you can't use PPFX to load a FP into RXP - you enter the manually. In fact I enter them manually into the G1000 too.

 

Yeah, I kinda figured that too from what I've read but that's ok too.

 

The problem with the RealityXP stuff is now this Duke just became a ~$100 add on instead of ~$40 one.

 

Also, another question that hasn't really been answered yet here is how easy or hard is it to fly either of these aircraft without an actual set of rudder pedals?


I hear the Flight 1 KA200 is pretty nice. Another option is to hold out for the MilViz King Air 350 that is not far from release. There will be 2 versions released separately: Proline 21 and steam gauge. The external model and VC are second to none. Just a thought.

Todd

Thanks Todd.  Yeah, I've been seeing this mentioned a lot too.  I wonder how that will be on VAS/performance?  This is one of the things that has me leaning to maybe do the Duke first and wait for the MilViz in hopes it's better on VAS than the Flight1.

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How do you fly an airliner without pedals? I guess the YD is on all the time.

 

But I flew with a twist joystick for a long time before I got my Saitek pedals.... Never with the king air or Duke but it worked fine with Realair's old SF260.

 

You mentioned VFR type flying... Did you consider the Realair Legacy? Better visibility than the Duke and a little faster lower down too. Similar instruments to Duke... IFR or VFR capable.

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How do you fly an airliner without pedals? I guess the YD is on all the time.

 

But I flew with a twist joystick for a long time before I got my Saitek pedals.... Never with the king air or Duke but it worked fine with Realair's old SF260.

 

You mentioned VFR type flying... Did you consider the Realair Legacy? Better visibility than the Duke and a little faster lower down too. Similar instruments to Duke... IFR or VFR capable.

 

Yeah, I've never felt the need for rudder pedals with the airliners.  For the few seconds after takeoff and on landing that they'd be useful, it just isn't worth the money/hassle of having them.  I have a twist joystick too that I use for the rudder when I need it, but that's mainly on the ground for steering. I do use it some for takeoff with the Q400 before engaging the autopilot.

 

To fly GA, this becomes way more important.  Especially in a single engine.  That's mostly why I think I'm preferring twins at this point because I think you can again "get away" with not having rudder pedals a bit more than with a single like the Legacy.  Is that right?  Will the KA and/or the Duke's use of twin engines minimize the need for rudder pedals?  I don't know, maybe it's still the airliner guy in me too that still just likes the idea of two engines too.

 

Anyway, this is why I ask though.  If either the KA or the Duke really require rudder pedals to not totally ruin the experience and/or make takeoff or landings impossible, I may have to re-think this as now again, you start adding to the total $ amount.  If I really get into the GA side of things, then I would look into rudder pedals down the road, but my overall preference yet is still with airline type flying.  I think anyway.

 

This is going to be kind of an experiment for me to see how much I will actually fly GA.  I know at the moment that I at least want something very detailed and in depth but that doesn't require all the other "stuff" that goes along with planning and flying an airline route.  I still want to have to go through configuring the aircraft properly and all that great systems depth that you get with something like the NGX but just something that you can just get in, pick a destination and go.

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Twins can require more rudder than singles. Twins that have counter-rotating props make rudder work easier

 

Why don't you just fly the default GA to see if you like them?

 

Otherwise there's low cost addons like Ant's Airplanes or Alabeo which are GA typically.

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Why don't you just fly the default GA to see if you like them?

 

Because I still want something detailed.  I haven't flown default A/C in FS for a long time and I don't want to go back to that.  I think with the GA side of things, I like the idea of the maintenance side of things that these aircraft are doing - that ownership feeling or whatever you want to call it.  I think that will be fun too.  But, above all, I know I definitely want to feel, as close as can be possible in a sim, like I'm flying the real thing.  Default A/C come no where close to that.

 

So, I don't mind the $40-$60 price tag to get a "as real as it gets" plane.  But, I don't want to go much past that right now until I really fully see for myself just how much I will do GA type flying.  I will be more tempted to stay in it if the aircraft I choose has that high level of realism.  Otherwise, I'll just end up back in the airliners.

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Maybe the Aerosoft Katana 4x? It's cheap but very "accusim-ish"

 

It is very slow though, and not IFR capable.

 

I'd try the Legacy - it's very cheap on Realair's site

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I bought the F1 B200 because I got impatient waiting for the Milviz KA350 - It's a great airplane to fly! I had a little bit of a learning curve with the plane (mostly because I've never flown in a mdel that allowed hot starts). I've got the Duke V2 and the turbine Duke as well and they are also great buys - I hoenstly don't think that you could go wrong with any of them. I find that the KA200 is a bit more well mannered than the turbine Duke when taxiing, and I think that its faster than the TDuke. As far as FPS, I'm getting 25-40 on my system for both (used Bojote's .cfg tweak). I think the either of the RealAir Duke would be OK without RXP GPS, but over time I have bought both the RXP 530, 430 and GNS unlimited and would have a tough time going back to using the default GPS.

 

I know that its not much help, but I think that they are all fantastic - you "just"need to decide which one suits you best.

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This plane is good, but I don't consider it excellent.  There has been, in the past, some talk of the realism of the rudder, even post service pack.  It doesn't feel quite right, but it doesn't feel quite wrong to me either, and there is always the fact that I don't have first hand knowledge of what kind of rudder one requires on the real King Air.  To answer your main question, the F1 King Air definitely requires rudder input to center the slip/skid indicator, and I can't imagine doing that without rudder pedals, or with just a twisthandle joystick.  As with most FSX turboprops, with the exception of the majestic Dash, the turboprops appear to have some dysfunction from the real thing.  One thing that stands out for me on this one is how shockingly long it takes the engines to respond to the inputs of your power levers, and I don't think the real PT6 engines take that long.  If I were to give it a grade, I would give it a B.   If visuals are important, the airplane is exquisitely modelled in every way, and also has the best looking Copilot of any airplane available for FSX.  :rolleyes:

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Because I still want something detailed.  I haven't flown default A/C in FS for a long time and I don't want to go back to that.  I think with the GA side of things, I like the idea of the maintenance side of things that these aircraft are doing - that ownership feeling or whatever you want to call it.  I think that will be fun too.  But, above all, I know I definitely want to feel, as close as can be possible in a sim, like I'm flying the real thing.  Default A/C come no where close to that.

 

So, I don't mind the $40-$60 price tag to get a "as real as it gets" plane.  But, I don't want to go much past that right now until I really fully see for myself just how much I will do GA type flying.  I will be more tempted to stay in it if the aircraft I choose has that high level of realism.  Otherwise, I'll just end up back in the airliners.

 

 

If you're looking for äs-real-as-it-gets"with maintenance etc. you may also want to consider A2A's GA aircraft as well.

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The legacy is even cheaper than I thought - it's practically stealing at that price lol

http://www.realairsimulations.com/legacy_overview.php?page=legacyfsx_overview

 

Another great plane that recently came down in price is the Baytower RV7 - not as fast as the legacy but can get into shorter strips low stall speed etc.... Like the Legacy will accept RXP GNS 530W (not the 430 though which the legacy will accept)

http://www.baytower.ca/bts_downloads.htm

If you're looking for äs-real-as-it-gets"with maintenance etc. you may also want to consider A2A's GA aircraft as well.

Agree but he said he wants to fly faster than 120 which sort of limits is from good selections....

 

Other options are Ant's T28A - D or Carenado Cirrus

 

Something to consider: if you buy from F1 there's a 30 return policy.

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A2A's Civilian P-51 - It has the performance of a King Air more or less and is IFR capable.  Plus you are running off a merlin.  Plus you are flying with style.  Plus you can barrel roll if you feel bored.  This is my baby for getting away from airline flying. 

 

Though in all honesty, a King Air is a good airplane that doesn't really require you to stick out the routes either.  You really don't need any kind of professional flight planner and a full dispatch sheet.  I fly a bit on the real B200 myself, and really, outside of work, it can be used just like any other aircraft.  Fly low and slow direct GPS from point A to point b?  Sure!  How do I flight plan?  I use the default flight planner :P , which doesn't stray too off from the real thing.  How do you fuel plan from one point to the other?  Just top up the main tanks, and if you want to go further, top off the Aux.  ZFW is 11000 lbs, so as long as you keep it below that, just keep it simple. 

 

I own the Flight1 King Air B200 and the Carenado one, and in all honesty, if performance is important to you, and you don't mind a few systems not being modelled (autofx test, rudderboost, and a few nitpicks with ITT), the Carenado is actually decent and feels more like the real thing. 

 

As far as rudder goes... I don't have pedals myself :P .  The real King Air really doesn't require much more rudder input than a single anyways, and both F1 and Carenado has a yaw damper and 3-axis autopilot if you so desire. 

 

The Real Air turbine Duke is also a treat of similar class.  I have a few quirks with their PT6 modelling, but it's decent.

 

With RealityXP, I probably won't stress out too much about it unless you really really want to check RAIM during your flights or would like to shoot an LPV down to minimum.  I generally stick to the default GPS myself... but then that's mostly because I'm cheap B) .

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If you're looking for äs-real-as-it-gets"with maintenance etc. you may also want to consider A2A's GA aircraft as well.

 

Yeah, actually it was the release of their Cherokee that started me thinking down the GA direction.  However, I'm just for whatever reasons(some mentioned above), preferring twins at the moment.  If I really did get into GA, I can definitely see myself getting A2A as they seem to be one of the "PMDG" of GA from what I am gathering so far.

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RealAir Turbine Duke - a fun plane that gets 270-300knots at FL250 for 1150 nm. Good on frame rates with the need for throttle management or you'll cook the turbines and they'll stop and leave a trail of smoke. The modelling even has rain drops across the windscreen when entering rain filled clouds.

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As far as rudder goes... I don't have pedals myself .  The real King Air really doesn't require much more rudder input than a single anyways, and both F1 and Carenado has a yaw damper and 3-axis autopilot if you so desire. 

 

So they can be flown without a real rudder.  That's good.  Some day maybe I'll add pedals. :unsure:

 

 

 


RealAir Turbine Duke - a fun plane that gets 270-300knots at FL250 for 1150 nm. Good on frame rates with the need for throttle management or you'll cook the turbines and they'll stop and leave a trail of smoke. The modelling even has rain drops across the windscreen when entering rain filled clouds.

 

So what does v2 Piston have vs the v1 Turbine?  I lean towards v2 Piston just because it is "latest and greatest" in this line.  But, if the Turbine even at v1 is close to the Piston at v2, then that could be an option.

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So they can be flown without a real rudder.  That's good.  Some day maybe I'll add pedals. :unsure:

 

 

 

 

So what does v2 Piston have vs the v1 Turbine?  I lean towards v2 Piston just because it is "latest and greatest" in this line.  But, if the Turbine even at v1 is close to the Piston at v2, then that could be an option.

Can't comment on the Piston version, I don't own it.

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So what does v2 Piston have vs the v1 Turbine?  I lean towards v2 Piston just because it is "latest and greatest" in this line.  But, if the Turbine even at v1 is close to the Piston at v2, then that could be an option.

 

I've got both the v2 Piston and the v1 Turbine and they're both great planes.  I fly the Piston more often, but I know that if/when they give the Turbine the v2 treatment I'll be at the front of the line to get it.  

 

I second the motion that you consider the Legacy.  It's a steal at its current price and you wont find a better airplane for admiring the scenery.  It can give any twin a run for its money in the speed department, too.  You could hold off on the Reality XP until after you've decided whether GA flying is for you.

 

All of the RealAir planes, in my experience are frame rate and resource friendly.

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