June 22, 201411 yr Hi All Just for interest, but living in Perth (WA) can have its downsides. Especially when we get those winter fogs. EK424 dep OMDB 19/Jun got to TD for YPPH after a long slog across the Indian Ocean but thick fog below minimums caused it to divert. Where to? Alice Springs (YBAS) - about 2 hrs from here. Fancy that when you think you're almost done! These fog events occur around 2-3 times in the winter and always generate some pain. Sometimes flights will try to land the need to divert to places like Adelaide. EK couldn't do that in this case because of the curfew in YPAD. Makes for interesting planning. Cheers James James Cleverley Perth, Western Australia "yes that's the furthest place from anywhere"
June 22, 201411 yr Kinda similar to the flight Emirates does from Dubai OMDB to Seychelles FSIA. The closest safe alternate (i say safe because i dont think they would think it ideal of going to Mogadishu in Somalia) is some 800nm away to the west. Bryan Richards "People depend so much on automation that they forget how to get the automation to work." B.W.
June 22, 201411 yr Does Perth not have Cat3 ILS? Cat1 At the moment. Next financial year is the timeframe being discussed for CAT3 Jarrad Symes Perph, Western Australia
June 22, 201411 yr With only a few fog event a year I can understand they need to justify it but with diversions 2 hours away... hmmm. Here in NZ if NZAA is closed, and you cant land in NZWN, then NZCH is only another hour and a bit. And vice-versa. But yeah having to go 2+ hours... wow! Wes Meyer
June 23, 201411 yr It would be interesting to know how much it costs to implement a CAT III. Iy´s probably a ton of money: all the research and analysis and planning, buying whatever radio and lighting equipment that need to be bought, coming up with the new approach plates , maintaining the whole thing, training the crews.... no small task I recon. but in the long run, probably more cost-effective than burning 2 hours of Jet A-1 and getting 200+ diverted pax home whatever way possible. Cheers,Victor M. Lima
June 23, 201411 yr Definately has been some interesting weather around here lately. but in the long run, probably more cost-effective than burning 2 hours of Jet A-1 and getting 200+ diverted pax home whatever way possible. Definately, worth it I would think. Especially when you consider that the fog was affecting airport operations for just over six hours and that roughly 45 aircraft were delayed or diverted. Obivously smaller aircraft can divert to places closer to Perth, but it's still a pain for the airline and the pax. "If you can't solve and equation with calculus, you're not using enough calculus" - A wise friend
June 23, 201411 yr It would be interesting to know how much it costs to implement a CAT III. Iy´s probably a ton of money: all the research and analysis and planning, buying whatever radio and lighting equipment that need to be bought, coming up with the new approach plates , maintaining the whole thing, training the crews.... no small task I recon. but in the long run, probably more cost-effective than burning 2 hours of Jet A-1 and getting 200+ diverted pax home whatever way possible.Remember, it would probably also affect how much diversion fuel flights have to carry, so it is not only about fuel burnt in an actual divert, but also all the extra tonnes of fuel carried on EVERY flight, just in case they have to divert. Wes Meyer
June 23, 201411 yr Commercial Member Just got down to OZ this morning in an effort to simulate a trip that a family member took a few months ago (US -> YSSY-YBBN-YBCS-YMML-WMKK-WSSS-RJAA -> US), and am coming to realize how good we have it in the States with airports everywhere. Kyle Rodgers
June 23, 201411 yr Didn't even visit the best part of Aus Kyle :P You think over east doesn't have any airports, try flying in WA! "If you can't solve and equation with calculus, you're not using enough calculus" - A wise friend
June 23, 201411 yr Wes, don't forget Ohakea. It took a 77W last year when the Qantas 738 closed NZAA with locked brakes. NZCH is the only alternative in NZ for the A388. Mark Ward
June 23, 201411 yr raddragon, on 23 Jun 2014 - 5:53 PM, said:Wes, don't forget Ohakea. It took a 77W last year when the Qantas 738 closed NZAA with locked brakes. NZCH is the only alternative in NZ for the A388. Hi Mark, I was not aware that Ohakea was allowed to be used as a planned alternate? IE if they let you in, good on ya, but you are still supposed to plan on CHC. Just looked it up and they did take a CX A343 that day. Looking at the satellite images, a 77W would be a tight fit on those taxiways!! Wes Meyer
June 23, 201411 yr The Emirates alternates for Perth are: YPEA - Pearce , with an ILS YPKG - Kalgoorlie YPLM - Learmonth Vpira
June 23, 201411 yr You also have to remember the alternative airport has to be a sufficient fire category, it has to be open, with handling services (coaches for pax) , fuel onsite and also a "manned station"(engineering available that can fix your a/c) Not to mention the weather's has to be in limits too Diversions are the vain of my life at work and it never ceases to amazes us in operations why pilots when they have 5 alts to choose from they go for the one with no ground handlers...ie Bordeaux or Breast at 0100am instead of bloody Paris
June 23, 201411 yr Diversions are the vain of my life at work and it never ceases to amazes us in operations why pilots when they have 5 alts to choose from they go for the one with no ground handlers...ie Bordeaux or Breast at 0100am instead of bloody ParisBecause, Bordeaux is so much more fun (for them anyway). :lol: Wes Meyer
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