That was a nice video, learnt a lot from it and my only thought was: It's that easy? O.O

 

@Rob:

I slowly get the feel for it, but trimming to flight level not achieved by now. I struggle a bit like you. When I enable cheat mode I'm always surprised how far away I'm from the 300 knots ref speed. Maybe doing still something wrong who knows.

 

Tried 9 landings today, all a fail. I don't know why and how, but the last 500 ft. to the runway the approach gets more and more unstable. I have to correct the flightpath very often with my Yoke during that time.

Then when I think everything is ok, right before crossing the threshold the sinkrate gets broken (gets up from around 750 ft/min. to almost 400 to 300). It looks like the plane flares itself and then it floats above the runway. Irrespective what I do (push the Yoke down and hold it), the sinkrate goes up. Is the ground effect that strong on a 777?

I don't know, either witchcraft in my Yoke, or I'm just doing some unexpected things I don't realize at this time . 

 

Just out of curiosity. Is anyone having the exact same problems I am fighting against during landing? If not, then my hardware is definately messed up.

 

Best regards,

Ben

Rob, I'm seeing similar behavior on my sim as yours. The plane seems hard to trim. From a level flight it seems to drift up or down eventually, and the trim action seems too coarse to get the plane in trim again.

 

I suspect that I'm over controlling the plane here, as my sim requires way more yoke movements than in the video. Indeed, I do see the VC yoke moving a greater deflection than my own. So, the next thing I'm going to do is adjust the null zone setting in FSX (not FMC) as seem if this smooths out the controls.

 

 

Just out of curiosity. Is anyone having the exact same problems I am fighting against during landing? If not, then my hardware is definately messed up.

 

Best regards,

Ben

Can't say that I have that problem. 9/10 of my landings were great. Definitely easier than 738. 

Just out of curiosity. Is anyone having the exact same problems I am fighting against during landing? If not, then my hardware is definately messed up.

Ben

I don't know if it will help, but you might want to try the "force idle for landing flare" option in the sim menu. I am finding the flare sequence is much easier with the throttle variable removed from 30ft AGL down.

I've been playing around with it after SP1 and to me it feels ok. I haven't flown the 777 in real life, so I tried to fly like I do with small airplanes (C172, PA34, etc.). For climb, I pitch for the required airpspeed, and then trim to relive of controll pressure and it performs just as in the cessna, it will maintain the airspeed, but you will see it pitch up and/or down if it's not trimmed for the correct airspeed. The same goes for leveling off. With the trim ref speed displayed on the PFD, trim for a different airspeed, and you will see the aircraft pitch up or down to get to that airspeed, but it will overshoot and undershoot for while until it stabilizes on the airspeed.

For landings, I usually fly with the AT on, and the all I have to is to correct pitch to maintain the desired glide path, and I don't have any difficulties landing it. Just make sure you are stabilized above 500 ft, or else you will be making corrections all the way down to the runway and screw up the landing (most likely).

I tried a few approaches with the AT off, and it works doing it like you would do in a Cessna; pitch for airspeed and power for glide path. With the trim ref speed on, trim for desired approach speed, and make small corrections with the throttle to maintain desired glide path.

 

I must add that trimming in real life is easier than in the sim because you have the feel of the controll pressure. You will maintain altitude (or airspeed if in clb or des), and trim it until the point where you don't have to pull or push on the yoke.

 

 

Now I can do those first 3-4-5 trim inputs on the PMDG777 just fine (for example accelerating from 250kt to 300kt).......but right when accuracy is starting to matter, right at the point where the trim ref speed is getting quite close (within 15kt or so) to the actual speed....that is where I am having difficulty here.

 

Rob... do you think the issue is with the so called "blip trim"?

 

The way I understand it, the FBW automatically jumps to the correct trim when you get within 10 knots or so. Seems to me this function isn't working correctly, hence why you have trouble with the final trimming, compared to the real aircraft.

 

I recall PMDG did code this feature. 

 

 

Then when I think everything is ok, right before crossing the threshold the sinkrate gets broken (gets up from around 750 ft/min. to almost 400 to 300). It looks like the plane flares itself and then it floats above the runway.

 

Have you tried it without autothrust engaged. Could be that the autothrust isn't responding as quickly as required.

 

On my flight today, I experienced a lazy autothrust. Speed dropped quite markedly before the autothrust woke up and increased engine rpm. Upon landing too, with autothrust engaged, I noticed a slow response to lower thrust requirement.

Rob... do you think the issue is with the so called "blip trim"?

 

The way I understand it, the FBW automatically jumps to the correct trim when you get within 10 knots or so. Seems to me this function isn't working correctly, hence why you have trouble with the final trimming, compared to the real aircraft.

 

yes and no...

 

According to the PMDG777 SP1 intro guide, blib trim works when trim ref speed is within 5kt of actual speed.

And that does work (just display the FBW trim speed and you will see that).

The thing is that without FBW trim speed displayed, you dont know if those two speed are within 5kt or already spot on.

So when the plane then deviates from level flight one is tempted to hit the trim switch one more time and that moves the two speed apart again, aggrevating the situation into an endless, back and forth, trimming effort.

 

Just like someone else mentioned......I too am often surprised how far off I am from an in trim situation. I would hide the FBW trim speed...then try to get the thing trimmed.....and then I display the FBW trim speed, only to find out I am still 20kt off !!.....and the next thing you know the plane pitches up or down because of that.

 

Maybe the out of trim pitch moment is just too time delayed....if you know what I mean?

So you think you are done.....you let go.....and a second or two later you find out you were not done.

Or maybe that is where that CTRL COLUMN NUL ZONE comes in??

Maybe it requires MORE NUL ZONE to prevent the airplane from going into flight path stabilising mode??

 

I would almost like to have a blib function that moves to current speed once trim ref speed is within something like 15kt of actual speed. (instead of 5kt).

That would be unrealistic in one way, but on the orher hand it would make it much easier to get an in trim situation when the FBW trim speed is not displayed and easier twould be more realistic!

 

Or maybe I have to be a little more patient with trimming this baby than in real life (to prevent that back and fort trimming)

 

For what it is worth....I do think it is better than before SP1.....just too difficult (I should not have to learn how to trim this 777).

 

Pffff lot of words......dont know if anything I am saying makes sence...

Good thing I have to take a break from this for a few days ;-)

 

Good luck you guys!

So what will i do on approach when i want a certain v/s?

 

Right now and maybe wrong i adjust trim for v/s

and then throttle to maintain speed.

 

Cant trim be used for v/s?

 

Michael

 

So you trim for airspeed basically, on approach you trim up which lowers airspeed, trimming down increases airspeed, try trimming instead of using the throttle. I'm no expert and I need a bit of practice myself but that's how I understand it

 

Have you tried it without autothrust engaged. Could be that the autothrust isn't responding as quickly as required.

 

I get something strange after a flight online. I would descent faster hit LVLCHG and set faster speed. The bird drop the nose and drop and drop and drop... at 10000ft/min i must catch the bird by myself. If i recycle all system, all works fine.

 

Other thing what happend: If you are over TOD and reactivate or set new altitude to late, VNAV alive and the bird don't sink. But the speed drops. V/S are soooo slowly like 200ft/min something else. I must descent with FLCHG or set V/S by myselft.

 

After missed approach my altitude was not set well. 900ft must be 4000. If you go with autopilot on in TOGA Mode the bird is fluffing all the time. Yes i know this is my fault, but i don't know if this happens also in real life...

 

If you are in final, i experience nice landing if you switch A/T off. I have a keystrock on my quadrant to do that. But if A/T is enabled, it is feeling like a fight. There are more Videos of this and you can see how smooth he land this bird with A/T on.

 

I think throttle override must be active to do a nice landing with 777?

Just had a practice and it helps to have the FBW indicator on the PFD, but now Im gonna trim a LOT more!!! Its great,dont have to keep increasing/decreasing throttle just trim up/down for your desired airspeed...leave the AT off - Now im turning the AT off a lot earlier on approach then trimming for the airspeed I want. Same when I takeoff and enabling the AT far later than I would normally do...Thank you MR Boeing, and PMDG for simulating a great feature Im hooked on trimming now along with all of the other SP1 Goodies.

Ok, to update from my last post, I think I figured it out. After increasing my null zones in FSX (not FMC), I start from a stable, level flight under A/P. Then I disconnected the A/P and try some hand flying. I could climb, descend, and turn with my hands pretty much off the yoke after the initial adjustments, no trims required.

 

In speed adjustments, I just keep hitting the trim switch in small bursts in the appropriate direction. Then when I think I'm stable, I just turn on the FBW reference for a quick check. Usually I'm off by 3-5kts so just hitting the trim again snaps the FBW reference to my selected speed. So the blip trim works also.

 

I suspect that we (or at least I) will need to do this, trim and check the FBW reference, to practice trimming.

 

In conclusion, my yoke and trim movements are pretty much matching the video posted. Manual flight is working great with A/T is on the entire time just like SOP. So, I'm pretty happy with that!

So you trim for airspeed basically, on approach you trim up which lowers airspeed, trimming down increases airspeed, try trimming instead of using the throttle. I'm no expert and I need a bit of practice myself but that's how I understand it

 

Trimming does not lower airspeed.

 

This is no different to trimming any airliner. You shouldn't notice any difference between trimming the 777, or a 737, or a 757.

 

Don't make it more complicated than it is. Just trim it, like you always do an airliner.

 

If you increase speed you trim. If you decrease speed you trim. Simple as that.

 

If you are in final, i experience nice landing if you switch A/T off. I have a keystrock on my quadrant to do that. But if A/T is enabled, it is feeling like a fight. There are more Videos of this and you can see how smooth he land this bird with A/T on.

Yes, same for me. A/T off for landing is far easier. Easier to maintain the correct flight path.

Trimming does not lower airspeed.

 

This is no different to trimming any airliner. You shouldn't notice any difference between trimming the 777, or a 737, or a 757.

 

Don't make it more complicated than it is. Just trim it, like you always do an airliner.

 

If you increase speed you trim. If you decrease speed you trim. Simple as that.

Well in the video It states so, again its how I understand it, and doing my practice circuits it seemed to do just that along with the V/S increasing/decreasing based on the trim inputs

Well in the video It states so, again its how I understand it, and doing my practice circuits it seemed to do just that along with the V/S increasing/decreasing based on the trim inputs

At what time stamp the video states so?

At what time stamp the video states so?

22 seconds, I should add "Only use the trim switches if you want to change the speed" Trimming is to alleviate any pressure on the yoke and keep the aircraft at a set "profile" I know that...In my head I find it easier to understand the "theory" of trimming like this...You're open to interpret trimming anyway you want. As long as you understand it in Your head

Just fly the plane as a 737 but more stable. Forget to think about trimming... Switch off the trim vector in speedtape and you will be fine. The only thing what happend that trimming and handle of plane not smooth enough is. But its working.

 

What i expect is, that i'm in final and switch off the A/P the nose comes a little bit up and go down.