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twojastara

Default Gps Ils Approach

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Hi,

 

I am trying to learn how to use default GPS to guide me into ILS glide scope.

What I am doing:

1. Select airport from the nearest, ENTER, Activate

2. Press "PROC" button, select ILS runway, VECTORS and ACTIVATE.

 

Now I have some nice flight plan loaded into GPS with ILS approach. But what I can't understand is that it seems that it doesn't guide me to ILS glide path, but FROM it.

 

It usually flies my airplane directly to the airport, than in reverse direction through glide path, then makes loop back to the airport.

 

Everything would be fine if this would come in reverse order. Now, what am I doing wrong?

 

And the second question - is there any way to get ILS mag heading and frequency directly from default GPS? Where to look for it?

 

Thanks!

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You need to go to the FSX Learning center and read the info on GPS and Nav... the GPS and ILS are two separate things

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You need to go to the FSX Learning center and read the info on GPS and Nav... the GPS and ILS are two separate things

 

Yes I know this. I don't want plane to follow glide scope (with descent) on GPS like it does on ILS.

 

Since I can select ILS PROC in GPS I want it to guide me into the beginning of ILS glide slope, so then I can switch into NAV and make standard ILS approach   :rolleyes:

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The GPS will NOT give you vertical guidance, that's up to you

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Jay, as I understand it, the OP is very well aware of the fact that the GPS does not provide any vertical guideance. What he wants is the approach procedure displayed in the GPS (and that the plane is able to follow those procedures), just as if it were a STAR programmed in an FMC; he wants the GPS to guide him to the point where he could intercept the LOC and G/S, switch to NAV mode (at least in default AP logic) and then proceed along the G/S.

As said above, you could understand it as a FMC programmed to lead the plane to final approach using a STAR until the ILS intercept.

 

@twojastara: Are you sure you have the correct ILS freq dialled in and set active? Also make sure that the runway in use is equipped with ILS (might not be the case, IIRC sometimes you have an ILS approach to a parallel RWY making a side-step after establishing visual contact with it), and that you switch to NAV mode on time. You might also want to try if disengaging the NAV Hold function prior to the switch to NAV and re-engaging it immediately after that switch fixes the problem. There might be a glitch that the AP logic of FSX does not switch from tracking the GPS route to tracking a radio signal, but I'm not compeltely sure about this.

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The correct procedure is to use the GPS to get you cross country to an intercept course with the ILS.

 

Switch the autopilot to Heading mode to hold this track, and switch the GPS to VLOC mode (with the ILS frequency dialed into the NAV1 radio).

 

Then, prior to intercept, switch the autopilot to Approach mode to intercept and track the ILS.

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Thats why I tried to point him to the Learning center Flo

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It sounds to me like you are correctly flying a full approach. Many ILS approaches begin at a waypoint at, or near, the airport.

 

The approach will take you away from the airport to either a hold or a procedure turn that will line you up with the localizer.

 

Approaches are set up like this to accommodate arrivals coming from different directions.

 

This is different than receiving vectors to a localizer intercept which is more common at busy airports, with large aircraft.

 

To fly full approaches it is helpful to find approach plates for the approach, and learn how to read them.

 

regards,

Joe

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Thank you guys for your replies. I understand the difference between GPS and NAV, and I am trying to make use of GPS to get me into the position to switch to ILS approach.

 

Jay, as I understand it, the OP is very well aware of the fact that the GPS does not provide any vertical guideance. What he wants is the approach procedure displayed in the GPS (and that the plane is able to follow those procedures), just as if it were a STAR programmed in an FMC; he wants the GPS to guide him to the point where he could intercept the LOC and G/S, switch to NAV mode (at least in default AP logic) and then proceed along the G/S.

As said above, you could understand it as a FMC programmed to lead the plane to final approach using a STAR until the ILS intercept.

 

Exactly! :rolleyes: Thanks for translating this to Aviation English :lol:

 

It sounds to me like you are correctly flying a full approach. Many ILS approaches begin at a waypoint at, or near, the airport.

 

The approach will take you away from the airport to either a hold or a procedure turn that will line you up with the localizer.

 

Approaches are set up like this to accommodate arrivals coming from different directions.

 

This is different than receiving vectors to a localizer intercept which is more common at busy airports, with large aircraft.

 

To fly full approaches it is helpful to find approach plates for the approach, and learn how to read them.

 

regards,

Joe

 

OK so now I know that this is good procedure to intercept the LOC. It is hard to explain without any charts, but I thought that "procedure turn that will line you up with the localizer" is just too wide and I will end up too close to the beginning of runway.

 

Another question to you guys - is it possible to get ILS frequency and runway magnetic heading straight from default GPS? I know I can turn on the map and write it down from there but it takes some time and it would be awesome if I could do it during the flight.

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When you load and activate the ILS approach using VECTORs, the GPS assumes that you will follow ATC direction (or figure out your own) to the start of the final approach segment.  What you want is to select a transition as well as the approach.  The GPS will then give you a "direct to" segment to the IAP which you can follow using autopilot NAV mode.

 

The GPS does provide some vertical guidance in the form of the VSR window, which provides the vertical speed you must maintain to reach the active waypoint at the required height (typically "at or above" altitude).  Unlike the real Garmin, MS for unknown reasons programmed it for feet per sec, instead of 100s of feet per min so you have to do a little mental math (ex if the VSR says -5 fps that means descend at 300 fpm, -10 means 600 fpm etc.).  The FSX Garmin does not allow you to enter your own altitude on flight plan waypoints, so you only get the VSR for approaches as programmed in to the AFCAD for the airport.

 

The GPS comms page for the airport shows the ILS freqs, and you can double click and get the freq into the nav radio.  It doesn't give runway heading but after you activate the approach you can go to the flight plan page and see the course for the final approach.

 

One thing about the programming of ILS approaches and the autopilot is that you will often see the autopilot overfly the final approach waypoint and have to turn back to the correct course (i.e., no turn anticipation) so don't try to get an autopilot coupled ILS approach to work if you need too big of a turn onto the final approach.  Again, using a transition can help.

 

scott s.

.

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OK so now I know that this is good procedure to intercept the LOC. It is hard to explain without any charts, but I thought that "procedure turn that will line you up with the localizer" is just too wide and I will end up too close to the beginning of runway.

What are you flying?

 

If you are in a transport category airplane then you are probably right.

 

Here is an approach chart for 16L @ KSEA...

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1408/00582IL16L.PDF

 

This is a Class B airport that sees a lot of traffic and most of it is jetliners. note the approach has no procedure turn because ATC will vector all traffic to the localizer intercept.

 

Here is a chart for 13R @ KBFI...

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1408/00384LD13R.PDF

 

Smaller airport, smaller planes (though you do see a fair amount of Boeing traffic) and the approach includes a procedure turn.

 

Traffic arriving from the SEA VOR would cross the OM outbound and use the procedure turn for 2 things.

 

One is to get lined up with the localizer and the second is to descend to no lower than 2200' by the time they get back to the OM.

 

Hope this helps.

 

regards,

Joe

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Hi Guys,

 

Old thread but a good one. I've been flying the Carenado PC12 lately and using the FSX GPS for approaches... it is a chore but I AM determined to make it work. I've been trying it on the KTRK GPS RWY 20 approach from KSQL (Bay area Surf Air route). I set up the flight plan in FSX and load so it's in the GPS, enroute I "loaded" the GPS RWY 20 with vectors I believe. ATC (Vatsim) cleared me direct AWEGA which is the IAF so I clicked "direct" then selected AWEGA - Enter. Great flying direct awega... but now when I go to activate the approach there's nothing as it's thinking AWEGA is now my airport... very bizarre... fiddled around a bit and loaded my original flight plan back in (but now I've lost my direct awega) and was able to load the GPS RWY 20 approach again, used transition  OPOJI (FAF) but now the GPS was taking me somewhere else and I noticed it had a leg distance of over 2,000nm ya, that's not right. Luckily sky was basically clear and I just self vectored back to the approach inbound course. Thankfully I was off OAK_CTR freq and on Unicom so I didn't have to hear OAK say "where the EFF are you going?!" haha. This after a text book departure nailing altitudes and nav just to look like a noob on approach. I really should let them know I may deviate as I'm trying to get it to work right. Any hints are appreciated.

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The FSX GPS is not a very sophisticated piece of gear..

 

If you were using the Flight1 or RXP GNS, you would be able to fly these approaches

by the book.

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After "Loading" the GPS 20 approach into TRK and given "direct AWEGA" the procedure would be...

 

1) press the FPL button

 

2) press the CRSR button

 

3) scroll down to AWEGA

 

4) Press the MENU button

 

You will be asked if you want to "Activate leg?", press ENT

 

This should take you to AWEGA, or at least to the leg leading to AWEGA, which will eventually get you there.

 

Or, once you activate the approach in the GPS you should go direct to the initial fix, which in this case is AWEGA.

 

BTW, this is explained in the Learning Center.

 

regards,

Joe

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