funnily OOM magnet??? wouldn't? this be the case with such mega detail??

 

No because the airport is very small, so i doubt it will cause an issue. And its in the middle of nowhere..

Looking at scenery like that just makes me realize how much talent and potential is being wasted on this platform.

 

One could argue that DCS cockpit builders are wasting their talent when they should be working on the next Star Wars movie. One could then argue that modelers on Star Wars are wasting their time when they should be working on the next Star Trek movie. Then I would argue that all of them should be spending their talent on a Star Wars combat simulator. Full circle.

 

I'll let the artist decide how and when to use their talent, and reap the benefits where I can.

 

 

I'll let the artist decide how and when to use their talent, and reap the benefits where I can.

 

Well said, sir!

 

Scott

Full body scanner and I'll get it fursure!

One could argue that DCS cockpit builders are wasting their talent when they should be working on the next Star Wars movie. One could then argue that modelers on Star Wars are wasting their time when they should be working on the next Star Trek movie. Then I would argue that all of them should be spending their talent on a Star Wars combat simulator. Full circle.

 

I'll let the artist decide how and when to use their talent, and reap the benefits where I can.

I was referring to FSX, not the platform of flight simming in general.

 

DCS is a healthier platform (I can't believe I'm saying this) in many respects than FSX. Its being actively developed and will receive a new DX11 rendering engine possibly by the end of this year. Its already 64 bit and maybe it'll use a quad core properly one day too. 

 

Fact is that DCS runs better on my machine, and much smoother, than FSX while looking better. Also this isn't art, its a game. This means its interactive. When the talent is focused towards a medium which limits the potential for the quality of that interaction (ie. FSX sucks on modern hardware) it is right to lament this. Imagine how much better this guy's terminal building with all that glass and open form design would look in an engine that did lighting like Xplane or allowed useful framerates on a wider variety of hardware. Imagine if this beautiful product runs like a pig on FSX and so you have to weigh heavily the choice of using it or something else lest you OOM or just get such bad frames that you can't even fly.

 

Its worth lamenting that flight simmers are perpetually living with left overs and struggling to make do when the talent deserves a modern platform that would render the work in a much better light.

Also this isn't art, its a game. This means its interactive. When the talent is focused towards a medium which limits the potential for the quality of that interaction (ie. FSX sucks on modern hardware) it is right to lament this.

 

I can not disagree with you more on this. Games are, in fact, art. My shoes are art. My car is art. The sushi I ate for lunch is art. The keyboard I am typing with is art. Artists design all of these things, and expend a great deal of creative energy doing so.

 

Understand, my perspective is one of an artist who grew up in a family of artists, studied art history and studio art in college, and now work as a visual effects artist in Los Angeles. I don't expect most people would agree with my outlook.

Absolutely beautiful and wonderful to look at....as long as it's on AVSIM.  Don't want it on my computer because my planes can't fly into the airport terminal.  Sorry....no can do!

 

Stan

I can not disagree with you more on this. Games are, in fact, art. My shoes are art. My car is art. The sushi I ate for lunch is art. The keyboard I am typing with is art. Artists design all of these things, and expend a great deal of creative energy doing so.

 

Understand, my perspective is one of an artist who grew up in a family of artists, studied art history and studio art in college, and now work as a visual effects artist in Los Angeles. I don't expect most people would agree with my outlook.

What a pedantic reply.

 

I'm not denigrating the artistic energy or the talent. Get off your pulpit, its obnoxious because self righteousness on the internet is so boring and distracting from the point. Might as well try to understand what I'm saying and not just go about musing about how exceptional your own perspective is.

 

I object to your blanket use of the term art to characterize EVERYTHING because its pointless. If everything ever created is artistic then I guess I shouldnt' criticize anything anybody ever does ever at all. Your keyboard might be "art" on some level but its also a practical implement. If that practical implement doesn't work properly or is functionally awkward then its not as if you can just say "hey man its art, let the guy express himself how he wants". But that'd be stupid if the guy created the most beautiful and intricate keyboard but chose to have a PS/2 connector on it rather than a USB. Should I not criticize that choice, or lament it at least because now I can't use it, or is its merit as art such that I should stand in awe of his creative talent?

 

Games are interactive practical mediums of expression. I don't care how beautiful or intricate or inspired it is, if its on a medium that causes frame rate hits or OOMs or in general distracts from the enjoyment of the art within it then its perfectly legitimate to say "I wish this was being created for a better platform".

 

When I say games aren't "art" I mean it isn't art in that pedantic self indulgent way you described it. I reject the use of the word art which is a sloppy catchall. Its not some abstract creation to be stood before in awe, games are practical things that require a measure of interaction to function. That function is part of the art because its not as if he's creating this terminal building for the purposes of posterity or his own expression alone. Its being created to be enjoyed in the medium of FSX, but that medium is problematic particularly with complex addons like this one will be, and so all that artistic expression can be forfeit if its so damned complex and demanding on FSX that it makes it basically worthless to anyone but those with the most powerful hardware and the most rigorously tweaked settings.

 

If games are to be compared to art then its interactive art, and if the interaction is hampered by the medium then that should rightly be criticized, or did all your years of art history and study never involve any critical analysis of art and discussions of whether it succeeded or failed?

What a pedantic reply.

 

I'm not denigrating the artistic energy or the talent. Get off your pulpit, its obnoxious because self righteousness on the internet is so boring and distracting from the point. Might as well try to understand what I'm saying and not just go about musing about how exceptional your own perspective is.

 

I object to your blanket use of the term art to characterize EVERYTHING because its pointless. If everything ever created is artistic then I guess I shouldnt' criticize anything anybody ever does ever at all. Your keyboard might be "art" on some level but its also a practical implement. If that practical implement doesn't work properly or is functionally awkward then its not as if you can just say "hey man its art, let the guy express himself how he wants". But that'd be stupid if the guy created the most beautiful and intricate keyboard but chose to have a PS/2 connector on it rather than a USB. Should I not criticize that choice, or lament it at least because now I can't use it, or is its merit as art such that I should stand in awe of his creative talent?

 

Games are interactive practical mediums of expression. I don't care how beautiful or intricate or inspired it is, if its on a medium that causes frame rate hits or OOMs or in general distracts from the enjoyment of the art within it then its perfectly legitimate to say "I wish this was being created for a better platform".

 

When I say games aren't "art" I mean it isn't art in that pedantic self indulgent way you described it. I reject the use of the word art which is a sloppy catchall. Its not some abstract creation to be stood before in awe, games are practical things that require a measure of interaction to function. That function is part of the art because its not as if he's creating this terminal building for the purposes of posterity or his own expression alone. Its being created to be enjoyed in the medium of FSX, but that medium is problematic particularly with complex addons like this one will be, and so all that artistic expression can be forfeit if its so damned complex and demanding on FSX that it makes it basically worthless to anyone but those with the most powerful hardware and the most rigorously tweaked settings.

 

If games are to be compared to art then its interactive art, and if the interaction is hampered by the medium then that should rightly be criticized, or did all your years of art history and study never involve any critical analysis of art and discussions of whether it succeeded or failed?

 

You are calling me self righteous and pedantic? Okay, guy.

 

:rolleyes:

 

You're forgetting that bad art is still art.

You're forgetting that bad art is still art.

And whats your point? That we laud it for the attempt and stay our criticism?

 

Bad art is as unfortunate as good art poorly expressed or lost in a poor medium. The nature of top 40 radio means that great artists are lost in a sea of mediocrity and producer screening. The same has come to pass for authors via publishing. Great game concepts and gameplay mechanics are lost in buggy engines and poor optimization. A great payware addon is potentially lessened by the troubles in enjoying it thanks to the aging platform that is FSX.

And whats your point? That we laud it for the attempt and stay our criticism?

 

Since you've mentioned it again, can you tell me where I implied that anyone should hold back criticism? I criticize everything, and expect the same be done of me.

 

I simply disagreed with your implicit statement that games are "not art", which you have conveniently retracted and restated.

Since you've mentioned it again, can you tell me where I implied that anyone should hold back criticism? I criticize everything, and expect the same be done of me.

 

I simply disagreed with your implicit statement that games are "not art", which you have conveniently retracted and restated.

No what you did was tell me I had no right to tell an artist what medium he ought to be pouring his talent into when I lamented the talent being wasted on the limitations of FSX.

 

Its sloppy to just say "its art" because the usual association of that is that its explicitly art for art's sake, whereas any artistic effort poured into a software add on for a commercial product has more going on in its conception and its planning than just the artistic expression that usually drives most explicitly identifiable art.

 

The pervasion of art or the perception of artistic influence in banal parts of society is an indulgence in a conversation where the differences between "art" as in an art history book and "art" as in somebody stringing together polygons to sell to people on the internet are relevant. You might take exception to the distinction but its irrelevant to try to when its obvious that you're imposing your "unique" perspective on the conversation where its unnecessary and only a distraction.

 

Frankly if everything borne of any human ingenuity or effort or expression is art then whats the point of the word? Why even call it that? If I stood in the restaurant kitchen I once worked in and told my chef not to rush me because the plating I was doing was art he'd tell me to shut up and "sell the bill" because whatever creativity and care I put into it, whatever expression could be found in the flair of the way the pasta stood tall and how I meticulously placed the garnish to create an emotional impact on the one eating it the moment they saw it (people eat with their eyes as they say) it doesn't change the fact that what I was really doing was selling product. That is a distinction lost in your characterization that "everything is art", and since this is going to be a commercial product that distinction is important.

Full body scanner and I'll get it fursure!

 

LOL, don't forget security agents ;-)

No what you did was tell me I had no right to tell an artist what medium he ought to be pouring his talent into when I lamented the talent being wasted on the limitations of FSX.

 

If you can find a single phrase in my posts that says implicitly, or even slightly implies, that people don't have the right to to say or feel a certain way about a developer, I will stand corrected and apologize. But we both know you can't. I never said "everything is art" either. We both know that too.

 

If your hostility stems from my comment, "I can not disagree with you more on this. Games are, in fact, art." you seriously need to take a deep breath, put on your big-boy pants, and check yourself. You are going to lecture me on offering criticism?  If the hostility stems from anything else I said, which focused on my life history, and what I do for a living, then you're own personal prejudices are getting the best of you. Either way, it's ugly.

 

I'm done.

 

You win?

 

Okay.

 

:mellow:

 

Sincere apologies to the OP and other AVSIM members for the distraction.

 

Yes, this IS the most amazing scenery I've ever seen in a flight sim! I will certainly buy it! Created by a true artist!

Well this turned into a typical internet reply from you where the smilies come out and the usual "TL:DR" dismissive reply is issued.

 

So we reach the "I didn't say that" because you didn't literally say that phase.

 

 

 Games are, in fact, art. My shoes are art. My car is art. The sushi I ate for lunch is art. The keyboard I am typing with is art. Artists design all of these things, and expend a great deal of creative energy doing so.

 

You called everything under the sun art basically. This implies that you see everything as being a function of on some level artistic expression, ie. basically everything is art. Of course you didn't literally and explicitly say every single thing that was ever created by man is art so you're safe from being convicted of that, but its pretty disingenuous to say you didn't heavily imply it by citing as many disparate examples of every day things, many of which are primarily functional before being about artistic expression, being specifically art. You didn't say its kinda sorta somewhat like art, you said these things are all art created by artists.

 

If the purpose of the above sentence wasn't to say what I read from it then I don't really know why you said it. *shrug*