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phoenixphire

Can't Land Properly Post SP1-SP1b

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Ever since the SP's were released I have been unable to figure out how to land the T7 properly. I have read the section in the SP1 300ER supplement about fly by wire and the changes to the system. I think I somewhat grasp it but I can't seem to land this airplane properly so I am obviously missing something. I usually disconnect autopilot around 1000 feet and everything is fine up until about 100 feet when the airplane starts to porpoise and at around 50 feet I am pulling up to begin flare and the plane just suddenly drops out of the sky and slams onto the runway. I have adjusted the null zone as suggested but can not seem to change anything in regards to the landing behavior. Any suggestions. I have a Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog configured through FSUIPC and LINDA. 

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Something clearly wrong there with your set up.

 

Landing is easy.

 

It should be a stable approach, and just a slight flare [couple of degrees] at the 20 feet call.

 

You aren't stalling are you? You are at the correct approach speed?

 

If not, something to do with FSUIPC and Linda perhaps?

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Something clearly wrong there with your set up.

 

Landing is easy.

 

It should be a stable approach, and just a slight flare [couple of degrees] at the 20 feet call.

 

You aren't stalling are you? You are at the correct approach speed?

 

If not, something to do with FSUIPC and Linda perhaps?

 

That's what I thought but no issue with any other aircraft in the hanger. 

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Something clearly wrong there with your set up.Landing is easy.

Absolute agree with that. Must be something wrong with your the way your controls are calibrated.

 

If it is a celibration problem yiu should also see problems during normal flight with AP off (not only during landing flare).

Have you tried normal flight maneuvering?

 

If I have problems with my setup I just delete the FSUIPC.ini and setup things from scratch.

(also recommended by PMDG if nothing else helps).

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Ever since the SP's were released I have been unable to figure out how to land the T7 properly. I have read the section in the SP1 300ER supplement about fly by wire and the changes to the system. I think I somewhat grasp it but I can't seem to land this airplane properly so I am obviously missing something. I usually disconnect autopilot around 1000 feet and everything is fine up until about 100 feet when the airplane starts to porpoise and at around 50 feet I am pulling up to begin flare and the plane just suddenly drops out of the sky and slams onto the runway. I have adjusted the null zone as suggested but can not seem to change anything in regards to the landing behavior. Any suggestions. I have a Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog configured through FSUIPC and LINDA.

Did you try landing at a different airport? Try an inland airport, like Atlanta. Sometimes, with airports in close proximity to the water such as La Guardia, the approach will have you coming in very low and close to the water. I have experienced this phenomenon where coming into these airports will cause the aircraft to slam into the ground.

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Begin the flare at 20ft smoothly and when the trottles come back make it a little bit effective, but this plane is sensitive, you have to work on that.

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Do you have the A2A Accufeel running?

 

No, I don't own that program.

 

Absolute agree with that. Must be something wrong with your the way your controls are calibrated.

 

If it is a celibration problem yiu should also see problems during normal flight with AP off (not only during landing flare).

Have you tried normal flight maneuvering?

 

If I have problems with my setup I just delete the FSUIPC.ini and setup things from scratch.

(also recommended by PMDG if nothing else helps).

 

I am trying to avoid that. Setting up this joystick is a real pain. But shouldn't my settings effect every plane I fly? This issue is only with the T7 after SP1.

 

Did you try landing at a different airport? Try an inland airport, like Atlanta. Sometimes, with airports in close proximity to the water such as La Guardia, the approach will have you coming in very low and close to the water. I have experienced this phenomenon where coming into these airports will cause the aircraft to slam into the ground.

 

Yes this has been going on since SP1. I have landed at a ton of airports.

 

Begin the flare at 20ft smoothly and when the trottles come back make it a little bit effective, but this plane is sensitive, you have to work on that.

 

I can't flare after 20ft the plane drops out of the sky at 50. And this is different to the issue when mesh is st to high and the aircraft just hits the ground early. The plane stalls but I am above stall speed. Thanks for your help, y'all  :BigGrin:

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I am trying to avoid that. Setting up this joystick is a real pain. But shouldn't my settings effect every plane I fly? This issue is only with the T7 after SP1.

 

I know deleting the FSUIPC.ini really sucks......especially if you have a lot of controllers or planes to setup :-(

 

I do not know the reason why the PMDG777 this sometimes needs this.

I think PMDG does not know either.

As far as other aircraft not being effected.....it seems pretty PMDG particular (I do not have any other addon planes installed at the moment, but I am not aware of other addons having the need for FSUIPC.ini deleting)

The only thing I DO know is that doing so has fixed all kinds of strange problems.....from the 777 brakes not working to a completely uncontrollable 777.

 

I guess it would be a last resort option in your case.

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I usually disconnect autopilot around 1000 feet and everything is fine up until about 100 feet when the airplane starts to porpoise and at around 50 feet I am pulling up to begin flare and the plane just suddenly drops out of the sky and slams onto the runway.

 

Hi, Mike,

 

Are you sure you have the correct approach speed?  Are you keeping the autothrottle on during the entire approach and landing?  Are you extending the flaps so that the speed is never below the flaps indicator on the PFD?

 

I've experienced some porpoising on approach when I don't extend the flaps enough as the speed decreases.  Never just fell out of the sky though. 

 

Mike

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Make sure that you don't calibrate your joystick or throttles through FSUIPC, PMDG warned about it in Ryan's pre SP1 posting. FSUIPC work with the T7 you just shouldn't calibrate your I/O devices through it.  Hope this helps  because the T7 200 or 300 are very stable in the final  landing phase as others have posted. I usually flare at 50 ft because I like a little cushion above Vref and PFPX usually leaves me with more gas in the tank than I would expect (30,000 Lbs on intercontinental flights and 18-20,000 lbs on domestic flights).

 

Also, how does your A/C handle hands free ILS autoland approaches, touchdown and rollout? If the automated landings are OK and you are properly configured, I'd look at your I/O calibration. I use Saitek so I can't help you with the Warthog behavior. Before you delete the fsuipc.ini file try to reload the T7 from scratch. Maybe one of their .ini files is corrupted. Unusual but who knows?

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Make sure that you don't calibrate your joystick or throttles through FSUIPC, PMDG warned about it in Ryan's pre SP1 posting. FSUIPC work with the T7 you just shouldn't calibrate your I/O devices through it.  Hope this helps  because the T7 200 or 300 are very stable in the final  landing phase as others have posted. I usually flare at 50 ft because I like a little cushion above Vref and PFPX usually leaves me with more gas in the tank than I would expect (30,000 Lbs on intercontinental flights and 18-20,000 lbs on domestic flights).

 

Also, how does your A/C handle hands free ILS autoland approaches, touchdown and rollout? If the automated landings are OK and you are properly configured, I'd look at your I/O calibration. I use Saitek so I can't help you with the Warthog behavior. Before you delete the fsuipc.ini file try to reload the T7 from scratch. Maybe one of their .ini files is corrupted. Unusual but who knows?

 

Thanks. I did delete my ini file and let it regenerate.  I will try it again and see if that helps. I understand that it is not PMDG recommended but the software that came with the Warthog  has its own issues which is why I am using FSUIPC in the first place. Maybe if any other warthog users read this they could chime in. I really appreciate the help. I will try your suggestions. I can always put the ini back in later. 

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Just a really dumb question, what about altimeter settings? Have you tried autoland? Does the same thing happens?

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Just a really dumb question, what about altimeter settings? Have you tried autoland? Does the same thing happens?

 

Its not a dumb question. I actually have not tried an auotland. I have not had the occasion to use it. I like to hand fly the approach unless the weather dictates other wise. 

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Its not a dumb question. I actually have not tried an auotland. I have not had the occasion to use it. I like to hand fly the approach unless the weather dictates other wise. 

I like to hand fly it as well, if the auto land doesn't work well either, I would uninstall everything, and then re-install.

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Thanks. I did delete my ini file and let it regenerate.  I will try it again and see if that helps. I understand that it is not PMDG recommended but the software that came with the Warthog  has its own issues which is why I am using FSUIPC in the first place. Maybe if any other warthog users read this they could chime in. I really appreciate the help. I will try your suggestions. I can always put the ini back in later. 

 

777simmer is a snake oil salesman who just repeats some new claim he thinks, it changes each day.

 

You don't have to delete your fsuipc.ini file. You can change the calibration settings just for the PMDG 777, remove all the programmed axis for it and keep them for your other airplanes.

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777simmer is a snake oil salesman who just repeats some new claim he thinks, it changes each day.

 

This comment is highly inappropriate.  You owe 777simmer an apology.

 

Mike

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This comment is highly inappropriate.  You owe 777simmer an apology.

 

Mike

Thx Mike but dont worry about it. It is the third time on AVSIM he sais that (and some other stuff that he has omitted this time).There was another guy under allmost the same name, at another Forum who does the same thing.

 

Not sure what I have done to deserve a stalker, lol

 

But I think people here are smart enough to realize that my posts are all just from experience. And as allways....what worked for one person with FSX might not work for the next.

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There was another guy under allmost the same name, at another Forum who does the same thing.

 

Yea hard to tell if one person just use  a similar name or  close to it, guess that's why is best to put your full name  to your signature will avoid all this issue.  To the person your referring to here in this post has at least got his name  to his signature even though its in small print :P

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I like to hand fly it as well, if the auto land doesn't work well either, I would uninstall everything, and then re-install.

Reinstalling everything is never good advice. Reinstall the 777 only if necessary as a last resort.

I can't flare after 20ft the plane drops out of the sky at 50. And this is different to the issue when mesh is st to high and the aircraft just hits the ground early. The plane stalls but I am above stall speed. Thanks for your help, y'all :BigGrin:

It may be above the PFD stall speed but not the actual stall speed. It certainly sounds like you are stalling. Are the weights correct in the FMC?

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Do you have the resources to make and upload a video of you landing the 777? Pop-up the PFD if possible. 

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Well I haven't been able to respond because last night I had my anniversary dinner. I have tried a number of different options but what seems to be working the best is to map the throttles through FSUIPC and enable the yoke through FSX and not FSUIPC or Target software. So far this is working and it enables me to have separate throttles. I have completed a couple of buttery smooth landings. I am really thankful for all the advice.  :Praying:  :Applause: So thanks guys. Hopefully this continues to work. 

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I tried that too.

 

The problem I kept having with that is, that FSX keeps assigning the standard aileron, elevator and rudder to what ever it considers the apropriate axis for those.

 

So I would delete those assignments in FSX and reasign things to my liking only too find out a couple of days later that FSX had changed things once again to default :-(

 

If you end up having that problem as well......I found the solution for that in using FSUIPC for assignment of the axis and then sent the signal directly to FSX.

(so no calibration in FSUIPC).

 

As I understand it, using FSUIPC for axis assignment and then using "send direct to FSX" is basically the same as using FSX to assign an axis and then send the signal to FSX.

But you have the benefit that in FSUIPC your axis actually stay assigned as they should.

 

To use FSUIPC like that you have to use "axis elevator set" or "axis rudder set" or "axis aileron set" and put a checkmark in "send direct to FS".

(Mind the word "AXIS"..... this is important, as there is also an "elevator set" and "rudder set" and "aileron set" assignment (without the word AXIS) when you put the tickmark in the wrong box (the send to FSUIPC for calibration box)).

 

Anyway....if things stay as they are.....don't touch it again :-) :-)

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Do you set your approach speed to Vref+5? Vref is calculated by the FMC using zero fuel weight plus fuel on board and air data from aircraft sensors. If the T7 maintains Vref+ ire shouldn't stall unless you're outside the attitude envelope! somewhere above 5-7 degrees.

 

Have you tried an ILS approach, hands off? If a full auto land approach with centerline rollout works you can probably rule out the software and concentrate on you joystick. I also pass my Saitek yoke and throttle axes through FSUICP via direct connections with good results. Have you looked at your dead zones and axis response curves? Any trouble with other PMDG aircraft? How far out do you set your final flaps and landing gear? I try to have the aircraft in final configuration at least three miles from the end of the runway. Also do you have any ground effect at idle and flare, say at 20 ft AGL?

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I tried that too.

 

The problem I kept having with that is, that FSX keeps assigning the standard aileron, elevator and rudder to what ever it considers the apropriate axis for those.

 

So I would delete those assignments in FSX and reasign things to my liking only too find out a couple of days later that FSX had changed things once again to default :-(

 

If you end up having that problem as well......I found the solution for that in using FSUIPC for assignment of the axis and then sent the signal directly to FSX.

(so no calibration in FSUIPC).

 

As I understand it, using FSUIPC for axis assignment and then using "send direct to FSX" is basically the same as using FSX to assign an axis and then send the signal to FSX.

But you have the benefit that in FSUIPC your axis actually stay assigned as they should.

 

To use FSUIPC like that you have to use "axis elevator set" or "axis rudder set" or "axis aileron set" and put a checkmark in "send direct to FS".

(Mind the word "AXIS"..... this is important, as there is also an "elevator set" and "rudder set" and "aileron set" assignment (without the word AXIS) when you put the tickmark in the wrong box (the send to FSUIPC for calibration box)).

 

Anyway....if things stay as they are.....don't touch it again :-) :-)

 

Thanks Rob, and yes this is how I had them set up before when I was having the issue. I will try agian. It seems you are right FSX has a mind of its own and as of this writing I am having the exact issue you describe. I am going to try again. 

 

Do you set your approach speed to Vref+5? Vref is calculated by the FMC using zero fuel weight plus fuel on board and air data from aircraft sensors. If the T7 maintains Vref+ ire shouldn't stall unless you're outside the attitude envelope! somewhere above 5-7 degrees.

 

Have you tried an ILS approach, hands off? If a full auto land approach with centerline rollout works you can probably rule out the software and concentrate on you joystick. I also pass my Saitek yoke and throttle axes through FSUICP via direct connections with good results. Have you looked at your dead zones and axis response curves? Any trouble with other PMDG aircraft? How far out do you set your final flaps and landing gear? I try to have the aircraft in final configuration at least three miles from the end of the runway. Also do you have any ground effect at idle and flare, say at 20 ft AGL?

 

Yes my approach speed is set to Vref+5 and after messing around I can confirm it is my controller setup. I have no issues with any other aircraft only the T7. 

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