I know that this is going to sound like a stupid question -- but, after many years of flying all sorts of really good freeware addons, I am thinking of trying out some payware items. I have only ever purchased 2 of these - the Cessna 310 and the Dash8-300. I bought them when they were being offered for half price and realised that the reason for this was that they were really "yesterdays" technology. But they have been good. Both have not been as good as I anticipated that payware would be - but I do realise that they weren't the very latest to be offered. I have really always enjoyed the default C172 and return to it a lot - it isn't really default anymore because I have heavily modified it - but overall , it is really nice to fly and is probably what I would fly in real life if ever I flew in real life.So I see now that there is a nice looking payware C172 and I also see that the Aeroworx B200 looks really good. But I already have a twin - the C310 - so I can't help but wonder whether the cost of the B200 will really give me much "bang for my bucks".So here is the stupid question - when people buy all these loads of payware a/c - why do they?. Surely, in terms of the Sim, a single piston is a single piston. So having one single piston is surely enough -- why buy another? I don't for example have any good single turbines and the default Caravan is hopeless - so maybe the way to go is to buy one example of every "type" of a/c - single piston, single twin, single turbine , etcWhat do you sayBarry

Quality is so much better than default. Alot of payware are done to replicate the exact thing as closely as possible. Take the B200, personal favorite.. Its a great twin-turbo prop.. The best in my book.Take biz jets for example, the ESDG Ciation X or any of the citation series are about the best biz jets for fs. About as close as you can get to the real thing. Anything by ESDG is 5-stars. Thats pretty much basic for them. The new DF/F1 A36. The best add-on GA-aircraft yet. If you were to go to reality-xp and buy their weather radar alone, you would of allready spent 5$ less than the cost of the A36 which is the best GA addon yet IMHO, and in addition, you get the new G430 that they have just released.Move on up to the jets, the PMDG or the LDS. These are the closest thing you will get to with out going into a full motion sim or the real thing. Sounds, 2D panel, VC on both are superb, flight dynamics. FMC!!! I think the FMC's on the PMDG is what set the expectations for a FMC. The sounds, the gauges are crisp and clear. Sounds are great! Flight dynamics are pretty real from what i hear. I love my LDS! If you are willing to go for a complex aircraft, the LDS767 or the PMDG 6/7/8/9 are about as good as you can get for the time being.You would seriously have to compare the payware to a freeware of the same aircraft. IE, LDS767 vs POSKY 767v4. Both models are great. The posky will be one of the best freeware avalible. But there is really a night and day difference when you make a transition from a freeware to payware. I fly freeware still, ALOT infact. Such as the new Cirrus SR20. Only plane ive flown the past 4 days. Great plane. Then again, ESDG is developing a Cirrus SR20 with a full glass cockpit, VC, sounds. The freeware is great. Im not bashing it at all, it truly is one of the best freeware around. But it wont run with the ESDG. ESDG has put more time into the development into the gauges for example. Sound, VC, 2D panel, flight dynamics, and animations. Id seriously reccomend you try one of the planes i mentioned above then go get in the freeware version of that plane. There will be a difference.Now, ima go fly my freeware SR20. :-kewl

Barry, for me immersion is the key word. My first payware aircraft was the Cheyenne from FSD and I was in awe at the detail, not to mention the systems and the FD. Since then, I find very few freeware offerings that are designed to that level of detail, and understandably as it's usually a one man show. Once you get a taste of something that pleases you in every aspect, you just can't go backwards. I work with FSDS, Gmax and 3DSMax and have modeled a few aircraft, but not knowing the first thing about panels, XML or flight dynamics, they will never see the light of day, LOL (guess I could make AI ones ;-) ).I fly helis most of the time and while there are some amazing ones out there, there is not a single one that doesn't have something that takes away from my experience (Owens new Jetranger is the closest to perfect in the sim IMHO, with the payware seahawk coming in second (losing out due to to much detail) I did some RW flights in a 172 with a friend a few months back and this got me in the mood for some virtual realism in a 172, the default just did not cut it visually (felt great with the realair FD upgrade), but the Flight1 version did it for me and I really enjoy it when I am in the mood for that type of flying.I was at KADS right when the B200 was released and watched several taxi and take off and I had to experience that in FS, the Aeroworx version is just spectacular and a joy to fly.As a scenery designer, I don't usually buy scenery, but broke down and got the Georender ones because they are the closest to what I would design (small details, animations, effects, realistic textures) and they are great. After getting the Flightscenery Rhode island, this is the standard I measure all other scenery with, it is that good!I guess it all matters to what is important to you in FS.Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

"Surely, in terms of the Sim, a single piston is a single piston."I don't agree. It's fun to have different models to choose from - Pipers, Cessnas, Beaver, Bonanza, Scout, Katana...they're very different. There's even a big difference between say the Aussim Warrior III and the Carenado Cherokee 180 - in terms of avionics, VC design, sound they belong to completely different eras.

For me, it all boils down to reaching a "level of satisfaction". I find that payware aircraft in general offer a sense of realism that most freeware aircraft don't provide, although there are some excellent freeware aircraft out there. I'm satisfied with owning a couple of examples of planes that I like to fly and learning how to fly those planes well over time.I own the Aeroworx B200, which I fly the most. I fly the PMDG 737NG-700 for my jet. That's it. The only other aircraft I will probably buy is PMDG's 747 when it becomes available. That will give me 3 planes in all to meet my flying needs. I've bought other aircraft when I was running FS2002, but decided to change with FS9.Other than aircraft, I use FSMeteo/Flight Environment for weather, both payware. I like to keep my PC lean and clean. I hate tweeking and love flying. So, I've achieved my level of satifaction and haven't spent a ton of money doing so.Lawrie

Barry, if you only buy one... have a look at the RealAir Marchetti.What will it get you?A high performance single engine aircraft that can do city to city IFR as well as free flight VFR and aerobatics.Excellent 2d and VC cockpits..Outstanding handling..A bubble canopy that gives you great visibility..It is scheduled for a free VC upgrade that will make an already fabulous aircraft even better..My prediction is that you would fly this plane a lot!And there is a whole world of other great aircraft out there..For the price of one and a half delivery pizzas, how can you possibly go wrong?www.realairsimulations.com

I have gotten almost 70% or so of all payware aircrafts by the majors. Realair, Dreamfleet, flight1, etc...But I actually fly only few of them. I buy them initially for the ad/hype but then I get tired of them pretty soon.However, some of them are so good or provide an unique experience that is on my top shelf that I go to very often.I am a GA kind of guy..I like to fly in the sim...the same aircraft that I get to fly in the real world.so Cessna 172, Pipers Archer, Senaca Twin, Decathlon and even the Piper Meridian (one of my very fav) etc... are perienial aircrafts for me. (Payware is generally more detailed in terms of avionics and flight dynamics)I got PMDG 737 and don't fly it anymore.. however, I can't get enough of the Flgiht1's ATR. Its simply awesome.. the VC and the flight dynamics are so adictive.. I hand fly that sucker to different aiports in all kinds of weather conditions with that windshield wiper going full speed and an engine out...and making a perfect touch down is so so sweet...:)

My first payware aircraft was purchased out of "necessity", as there was no alternative in the freeware department. It was the AlphaSim wr-71 Blackbird. My my what a jet! I had attempted to make several freeware Habus perform like they should and look like they should before finally giving up and buying it. I'm very glad I did!

"when people buy all these loads of payware a/c - why do they?"I think for as many reasons as there are people. If Microsoft said today, "that's it no more versions of FS" and there were no more addons available from this day forward I would still be content with all the 100's upon 100's of addons I already have for the rest of my simming days.People get excited and have to have the lastest addonOthers finally get their favorite aircraft, airport, sceenry bacause it means something special to them, it's their home town or brings back memories.Others just want variety or get bored easily after a few days with one particular addon.It's just like real life... how many pairs of shoes do you really need? You can only wear one at a time. I think some people just collect and collect and collect... (why do you think Public Storage units are so popular these days).

What we want is reality.. The real joy of flying...Until then...any freeware or payware that gets closer to that reality without the real troubles of real flying.....we are willing to pay for it.

What payware addon to buy depends on what type of flying you like. To me a good payware model is one I keep going back to. I have a few - Eaglesoft CitationX, Citation II, Aeroworx Kingair, Flight1 Cessna 441, Realair Spitfire & Siai Marchetti, ** P51, Golden eagles Grumman Goose, Alpha Lightning.I fly all of them regularly except the Lightning & the Cessna (the Kingair is light years better). If you like GA I can recommend the Siai Marchetti, but don't give up freweware just yet - there's some great free stuff around such as Guenters new Cirrus & the Realair FD for the C172. You will also find trying good quality freeware will whet your appetite for other genres, some of which have good payware options. For example, a real challenge is the TU114 from Dimitri Samborski - payware quality & a stunning model. Helicopters? Try Alan Devins Augusta or one of the two Hueys or AS350s from Hovercontrol. (There's also a Payware quality Bell 206 there). Warbirds - (plug here, I was involved peripherally) Robert Sandersons Sea Hurricane, Fast Jets - F18E, F, G from Daisuke or Luca Midic's amazing Soko Galeb. Vintage? Try Piglets Chipmunk or the new deHavilland Rapide.Payware's great provided you check the forums for user feedback to avoid disappointment. But remember there's lots of fabulous freeware out there too - and being free doesn't make it inferior to payware models :)LonelyplanetXO

Manny, you said it very well!Those who do not fly for real often forget aviation reality. Here's a real-world example:Last week I went to fly my Piper Dakota to practice some x-wind landings, well, there was a problem with the starter, so it was a no go.I was determined to fly, and looked at what the FBO had to rent, and the choice came down to a Piper Seminole and a Piper Warrior.The Seminole was tempting, as I had not flown MEL in years. However, when I thought of the $190 per hour cost (with my instructor along), I opted for the Warrior. Went up with my instructor for an hour, and it was about $95.You see, in real life, real pilots do not have the ability to just fly anything they like, and when they can opt for other aircraft, there's this little thing called "big money" involved.Heck, even my Dakota costs $90 an hour to fly.The beauty of FS is that you can fly almost anything for next to nothing. Even if you buy a payware aircraft for $25 and fly it for a few hours and then put it away, that is still a heck of a lot cheaper than renting the real thing and flying it for even one hour! Yes, it may not be the real thing, but it is often close enough.Why buy so many add-ons? Because it is a heck of a lot cheaper than trying to rent / fly all those aircraft in real life.For those who can afford it, it is the best deal around.You want o fly a Pilatus PC-12? Okay, buy a real one for about 3 million, or, find one to rent (good luck!) for about $1000 an hour. Or, buy the F1 PC-12 for $26.95, and fly it for 4 hours and get the feel of it. It will then cost you $6.74 per hour of flight time, and while it may not be the real thing, your other options for flying a PC-12 are far more expensive!That's the beauty of FS, it is SO cheap compared to the real thing!Yup, got the starter fixed on the Dakota, third one so far this year, and another $350.Every once in a while a FS reality check is in order, eh?Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

Hi Lou, how are you doing?Yes I agree with Lou tottaly for one reason alone. Choice.What Lou did not say through respect of not trying to sell to you too much is that his products are apsoloutley brilliant. Which is my opinion.Lou like a lot of developers became commercial becuase of a passion for this hobby and wanted to create a more involving experience for himself and others to share in.That's just what you get when you go for Payware. A real passion that is not an experiment but an ongoing learnt knowledge that is passed on to the customer.I don't know of a payware developer who does this just for the money. Most of us have to convince our wifes it's worth them giving us some time with us and most of us don't make huge sums of money. Payware developers ususally earn beer money and maybe a holiday for their patient wifes.So in summary; Paywere IMO gives you a developers passion and learnt skill and knowledge and a very affordable and good value for money price.Some are better that ohters and I can assure you Lou is one of the best and maybe even the best aircraft developer for our comunitity.Peter (developer of Flight Environment)

Lou,I must also add that some planes that we can "fly", cannot be rented for any amount of money, ie. military and vintage AC that are either not available, extinct or impossible to find for rent!And the real costs, that you mentioned, don't include the cost of PPL.

Peter Wilding, and Pete S., so good to hear from you both, and thanks so very much for the kind remarks. Pete S., I was just thinking of you a few days a go, as in, "I haven't heard from Pete in a long time!"Peter, I'll never forget that time we spent with "Mr. Know-it-all" in our suite at the Savoy in London, talking FS and other stuff. My sincere compliments to you for the fine products you have developed for FS. Most happy to see it.Pete S., I'll never forget meeting you at the MW conference in Seattle, and our visit to MS way back when. I miss your phone calls!Taken any cruises lately? I hope all is well with you and your wife, as you are one of my first FS friends, dating back to the "bar" at the old Hangar Talk forum at FlightSim.com. I guess my supply of Absolut is long gone by now, and just as well, as I have switched to Kettle One!You guys take care, and never hesitate to drop me a line when you have the time! :-)Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg