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What would you do in a 30 min real Flight Sim experience?

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I have just found out what my combined birthday and xmas present is. A fixed based 737-800 flight sim experience.

 

But what can you do in 30 minutes. I guess it would make sense to fly circuits, to get a real feel of the controls? You only have so much time, to make the experiences benifical and enjoyable.

 

I am hoping to fly a U-turn SID (which turns immediately down wind after dep)  and then try and engage L NAV and CMD after a while. Then cancal the SID vector the back onto the ILS. Maybe just hand fly the ILS and land or do another curcuit.

 

Do you think  desktop experience of the PMDG, will help me. I imagine the controls minght feel a lot more different to my Sateik pedals and Yoke. I am fearful that the rudders might feel very stiff and I will not hold the centre line?  Do the brakes feel anything like  the Saitek rudders, which I know a lot of people own?  Anybody got some experiencess to share of flight experiences?

 

Happy New Year

 

Julian

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I visited the fixed base 737 simulator in London's Westfield Shopping Plaza, and started out with a VFR flight from Hong Kong Chep Lak airport's Runway 7R, to nearby Kai Tak Airport Runway 13, arriving via the infamous "Checker Board" approach.

 

Rolling into the last right turn to line up for short finals, I pulled the throttles back to what felt like flight idle, but I failed to glance at the EICAM screen to confirm that my N1 reading was in fact showing flight idle.  The upshot was I landed too fast, and then foolishly I agreed to allow the guy who worked in the simulator to throttle up and fly a complete circuit around Hong Kong island for another approach and landing into Kai Tak Runway 13, during which I was a paying spectator.

 

Looking back now I regret even the short flight from Chep Lak to Kai Tak, since that consumed vital minutes, and then I compounded my bad decision by allowing the simulator guy to fly around Hong Kong island, since, by the time he made that landing, my entire allotted 30 minutes of sim time was gone.  

 

As consolation for my poor judgement, the simulator guy threw in a couple of free minutes extra time for me to fly a stormy weather ILS landing into Heathrow Runway 27R, which went fine, BUT, with the 20-20 hindsight I now have, I would NEVER fly any type of circuit during a 30-minute sim session, because the time literally flies away that way.

 

In your shoes, I would request to be placed at say 2,000 feet AGL half-way down the glide slope of my favorite airport, and then I would proceed to fly repeat stormy weather ILS approaches and  landings, with the request that my plane be returned to the start-point of the approach with a quick reset button re-start to get me there, after each successful touch-down and roll-out.

 

 Circuits flown will rapidly consume precious seconds in the simulator,  such that you will wind up with barely enough time to perform more than a couple of landings for your 30 minutes of time, UNLESS you go with the short finals approach and reset route.            

 

Regarding the feel of the controls in comparison to my desk-top CH yoke and toy-like throttle quadrant, I noticed that the Westfield Mall 737 simulator's Boeing yoke required considerable exertion to make hard banking turns, and I also noticed that the throttle levers required a lot more force to advance and retard, which is why I failed to pull back forcefully enough on the throttles when I intended to reduce thrust to flight idle.

 

Don't forget to write back here and let us know how your sim session went, and whatever you do, be sure and request those resets at a fast and furious pace, to get enough variety into that fleeting 30 minute session that always ends too soon.

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30 min is not too much time for FFS. You should choose one airport(becouse is takes some time to load the scenery if you want to change location, and it's a waste of time), you can do a take off - retract flaps, level of and try to get a real feel of the controls, and then 2 landings with complete approach, or 4-5 landings without STAR's. This is what i did on my first FFS experience: 

I was there with 2 other persons, and each of us has had the time to do 1 take off and 3 landings in 1h time. So, 3 take off's and 9 landings in 1h, you can do half of that - this is how much time you have

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"What would you do in a 30 min real Flight Sim experience?"

 

A no brainer: Negotiate with the owner to by it! :lol:

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Rolling into the last right turn to line up for short finals, I pulled the throttles back to what felt like flight idle, but I failed to glance at the EICAM screen to confirm that my N1 reading was in fact showing flight idle.  The upshot was I landed too fast, and then foolishly I agreed to allow the guy who worked in the simulator to throttle up and fly a complete circuit around Hong Kong island for another approach and landing into Kai Tak Runway 13, during which I was a paying spectator.

 

 

That must of been quite frustrating. VHHH is a pretty tough place to go even in FSX, but I can understand the appeal of it.

 

I think I just want to try a London airfield EGKK or EGLL, And ask to load up a SID, take off, fly a bit of the SID up to about 4000f, then try and get back on to the ILS. Then of course the landing, vectoring onto the ILS. That way I get to experience a take off, a bit of automation, and the landing. That's what I have in my head, will it work out like that....I don't know?

 

At the end of the day it is a taster so I'm not going to complain what ever happens.

 

I would like to try and do the checklist at the particular stage of flight, more likley BEFORE TAKE OFF CHECK LIST,  RUNWAY ENTRY PROCEDURE, AFETR TAKEOFF and then skipping to . LANDING CHECK LIST, and try and do the calls if possible. Just like FS2CREW.

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Ha ha something tells me you will decide to go ahead and purchase an extra half-hour of simulator time, Julian, to make up a full hour.  I know you're thinking along those lines already ha ha.

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Hi Julian,

first time I flew a B738 fixed base trainer i ha

ds a short hop (LIMJ-LIMC) (about 20 min flight) but when I went there it was told to me that flight time would be from engine start ...I hope so also in your case: keep in mind infact that preflights operations are really time-consuming. If you start from a "cold and dark" situation you can spend also 15 minutes before arriving to engine start...

When I made 1 hours session there I usually flew a flight like LSZH-LIMC (about 37 min flight time to have enough time to practice LIMC or LSZH and LIMC taxing)..

Now usually I book two hours-sessions so me and my copilot friend can train both with takeoffs and landings...

Best

Andrea B.

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If you start from a "cold and dark" situation you can spend also 15 minutes

 

I won't be doing any cockpit preparation. I think a bit of taxing up to the runway, then take off. 

 

Ha ha something tells me you will decide to go ahead and purchase an extra half-hour of simulator time, Julian, to make up a full hour.  I know you're thinking along those lines already ha ha.

 

 

I was thinking of upgrading the voucher to an hour maybe. Lets see. It is expensive but life is too short!

 

The place that runs the Sims are fully booked this week, so it may be a couple of weeks, when I do the flight.

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I think you could try a LIRF - LIEO: taking off from 25 and then you have a nice 06 circle to land at LIEO (Olbia Costa Smeralda).

 

Otherways a (very) short hop from PISA to GENOVA, also an interesting circle to land depending on weather.

 

Have fun!

 

Andrea

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Here is my advice from someone who has brought some non-pilots and some private pilots into the full flight sims during my training career:

 

1. Don't waste any time flying with the AP. Hand fly it all the time. 30 mins is extremely short and will be gone before you know it (really). You'll want to feel how it flys in your own hands. You don't need to fly it with the AP. Why? Because you can do that at home with your own sim! So don't waste any level D sim time flying with the AP.

 

2. Make sure your seat is adjusted!!!!! Remember, you've never actually adjusted the seat before so make sure your feet are ok on the rudder pedals...too many first timers 'rush' this and end up having control problems flying because they are not in the correct seat position. So, take your time and make sure your seat is adjusted properly for you.

 

3. You will get sensory over load and tunnel vision. So expect it.

 

4. The controls will not feel like your controls at home...they will feel different...so expect it and don't be surprised...they will feel much heavier that what you are used to.

 

5. Your right seat instructor (where I would sit) probably won't be pushing any MCP buttons for your FD...BUT...he or she might since you know what an FD is and how to fly one. Most of the folks I put in the left seat didn't know what an FD was so I had to skip it due to time.

 

5. Take off and fly a landing pattern circuit...you don't need a SID or a STAR...all you need is the ILS data and fly downwind 8 to 12 miles before turning onto base (your instructor will tell you when to turn base). Fly the ILS with the FD on. If you try to fly with the FD off, you'll be flying what we call 'raw data' and that's extremely difficult to do if you're not a real pilot with some instrument time. So, don't waste an approach trying to fly raw data...use the FD from the get go. You're only going to get 2 landings in 30 minutes!!!

 

6. Now for the tunnel vision stuff: you're going to find out that flying the 737 is like doing three things at once which they say is how you fly a helicopter. After you TO and level off on the down wind leg, somewhere there your instructor will say watch your airspeed (if you're manually handling the throttles) so you'll focus on the airspeed and the throttles. Then he'll say watch your altitude and you'll focus on pitch to get back on altitude. Then he'll say watch your heading, and you'll bank to correct your heading. This cycle will repeat.

 

So don't be surprised. If your a real pilot you may not have this problem because you will be used to how to juggle these three things without thinking about it. But if you're not a real pilot, you'll probably get tunnel vision and lose track of one of these parameters and when focusing back on one, lose track of the others, etc.

 

7. Don't spend any time on pre-flighting the cockpit. You will have absolutely no time for that. Let the right seater scan the panels and get it all set and ready for TO. Do a quick engine start. If you try to start the engines normally, you'll eat up too much ground time. If you try to ask him any preflight questions you'll eat into half of your 30 mins before you realize it and then get only one landing in.

 

So, that's my advice...your mileage may vary...but good luck and have FUN...!!!

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So, that's my advice...your mileage may vary...but good luck and have FUN...!!!

 

That is all good advice. I don't expect much automation. And I do expect the controls to be more heavy and stiff compared to my plastic controls on my desk.

 

Unfortunatly the company are completely booked this week, being the festive session. Obviously very popular this time of year. Just when I have lots of holiday the sim company are booked. So I will have to book in a few weeks time and get yet another day off from work. (Hope the boss dosen't mind).

I might be able to borrow a video camera, but lets see, if I can get somebody to record it. No promises though.

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Hi,

and not forget to keep your hand on the trotthles until V1..very easy to forget if you aren't any trotthle device at home...

As Ralph as already said it's very important to well adjust your seat..and don't forget to well adjust your height according to "eye reference position" scheme at page 109 Volume 2 FCOM: w/o moving your back from the seat you must be able to see the upper, the gauges and the lower side of gauges panel...

 

Because my B738 fixed base trainer has three monitor for outside wiev of which two (captain and f/o) a bit "slanted" and a central one ahead of center panel)..I've always suffering of a parallax error when going there: on the captain position you see the rwy a bit slanted to the right (also if you're aligned with the centerline the opposite, rwy slanted to the left if you're in the copilot seat)..

I hope you'llhave a projector system...

Ciao

Andrea

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and not forget to keep your hand on the trotthles until V1..very easy to forget if you aren't any trotthle device at home...

 

 

Yes Yes... :rolleyes: I do all that on my plastic devices that are falling apart but are so dear to me.  The Saitek Pro flight Throttle, Yoke and rudder system. :lol:

 

Honestly guys I'm hoping to do slightly better that a novice.

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I think I just want to try a London airfield EGKK or EGLL, And ask to load up a SID, take off, fly a bit of the SID up to about 4000f, then try and get back on to the ILS. Then of course the landing, vectoring onto the ILS. That way I get to experience a take off, a bit of automation, and the landing. That's what I have in my head, will it work out like that....I don't know?

 

 

rfresh737 has a lot of good pointers in his advice.

 

You really don't have time in 30 minutes to fly a SID up to 4000. You don't want to do any taxiing, just start on the takeoff runway with the engines running, configured for takeoff.  Do your taxiing after your last landing, if you want to get a feel for the tiller/rudder pedals.

 

You'll just have enough time to takeoff, level off at pattern altitude, turn crosswind, downwind, vector to ILS, go around, and do the pattern again to land.  basically two patterns.

 

You can try to do a touch and go instead of a go around from the first approach, but be prepared for a takeoff configuration warning after you apply TOGA thrust to go around after touching down.  (spoilers are out and flaps are not in takeoff configuration)  Ignore it and have the instructor configure the aircraft for go around to fly your second pattern.

 

As a point of reference, when pilots are training in the sim, the goal is to get into the cockpit, do the cockpit preparation, do all of the required dispatch paperwork, weight and balance, and push off the gate in 15 minutes. (Crews don't get it done in 15 minutes at the beginning - takes them 30 or longer to start - which eats into their precious sim time too - although they do have longer, but they have more to do)  Engine start during the push back, and then taxi to the runway, so it's usually 20-25 minutes before they are up in the air on a really good day when they are at the top of their game.

 

As far as hand flying, if this is your first time in a simulator, you might want to fly with autothrottles.  It takes one thing you have to monitor off your mind and just allows you to focus on the plane's altitude and heading.   You have another person in the seat next to you - he or she is your other crew member and a resource for you to use.  You're busy flying the plane, command the other crewmember to set your MCP panel - your speed and heading bugs, altitude selector, etc.

 

Steve W.

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I have just found out what my combined birthday and xmas present is. A fixed based 737-800 flight sim experience.

 

But what can you do in 30 minutes. I guess it would make sense to fly circuits, to get a real feel of the controls? You only have so much time, to make the experiences benifical and enjoyable.

 

I am hoping to fly a U-turn SID (which turns immediately down wind after dep)  and then try and engage L NAV and CMD after a while. Then cancal the SID vector the back onto the ILS. Maybe just hand fly the ILS and land or do another curcuit.

 

Do you think  desktop experience of the PMDG, will help me. I imagine the controls minght feel a lot more different to my Sateik pedals and Yoke. I am fearful that the rudders might feel very stiff and I will not hold the centre line?  Do the brakes feel anything like  the Saitek rudders, which I know a lot of people own?  Anybody got some experiencess to share of flight experiences?

 

 

 

 

 

Happy New Year

 

Julian

Hi Julian,

 

I recently booked a 2hour session in a fixed 777 simulator. I have plenty of hours in both the 737NGX & 777 and I was wondering if I could translate what I had learnt into the simulator. It was awesome fun, I spent the time flying circuits performing touch & go's. I took my 15 year old son with me who is also an FSX fan. The instructor, an A330 Captain sat behind us and played with his phone most of the time and at one point went out to make coffee and just left us too it :)

 

They had asked if we had done anything like this and I told them I was hoping to apply what I had learnt at home, They really complimented us which made the whole experience even better.

 

If I were you I would pick your favorite airport and practice what you'd like to do in the simulator.

 

Hope you have an awesome time 

 

Wv9lO6W.jpg

 

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Richard

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I recently booked a 2hour session in a fixed 777 simulator. I have plenty of hours in both the 737NGX & 777 and I was wondering if I could translate what I had learnt into the simulator. It was awesome fun, I spent the time flying circuits performing touch & go's. I took my 15 year old son with me who is also an FSX fan. The instructor, an A330 Captain sat behind us and played with his phone most of the time and at one point went out to make coffee and just left us too it :)

 

That is a nice amount of time. A half hour fixed sim experience is £99 in the UK, about 150USD. Hour much are your sessions in the US, or where your live?

 

 

You really don't have time in 30 minutes to fly a SID up to 4000. You don't want to do any taxiing, just start on the takeoff runway with the engines running, configured for takeoff.  Do your taxiing after your last landing, if you want to get a feel for the tiller/rudder pedals.

 

 

Remember SIDs in England are very tight, they are almost a circuits in themselves. From EGKK, my favorite airport, you have the LAM4M, or BIG8M from  26L. (google the free NATS Charts and have a look)  . They are a both a right hand turn and go downwind to RWY26L flying 260 inbound DET 113.30 (like a circuit). The base leg would just be about 29m from DET. I do hear what you say of course about the time constraints. Just exploring the possibilities.

 

I hope also that the instuctor will let me use the TOGA, and also the acceleration hight will be set at about 3000f.

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Remember SIDs in England are very tight, they are almost a circuits in themselves. From EGKK, my favorite airport, you have the LAM4M, or BIG8M from  26L. (google the free NATS Charts and have a look)  . They are a both a right hand turn and go downwind to RWY26L flying 260 inbound DET 113.30 (like a circuit). The base leg would just be about 29m from DET. I do hear what you say of course about the time constraints. Just exploring the possibilities.

 

 

That sounds good.   Probably don't want to go past 20DME to DET though, when you slow down to approach speed, you'll be doing about 2-2.5 miles a minute, and if you are on a 10 mile final - that's 4-5 minutes eaten up by your final approach.

 

You don't want to go too fast that you can't slow down in time, but you don't want to go too slow either.

 

But anyways, Good luck, enjoy your time and have fun - it will be a treat and a blast...   I personally don't like simulator time, because every time I go - it's a test that I have to pass or I'm out of a job.   It is nice to be able to step foot in one to be able to play.   I've only been able to do that once, and it was to fly approaches into Aspen Colorado, and play dodge the mountains :)

 

Steve W.

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Nice pics Richard...!!!

Thanks Ralph,

 

I am not sure if you can post video on here but I did a little 4 min edited movie

 

 

That is a nice amount of time. A half hour fixed sim experience is £99 in the UK, about 150USD. Hour much are your sessions in the US, or where your live?

 

Hi Julian,

 

I got one of these online deals (Groupon) I paid $165.00 CDN for the 2 hour package, I think it is $399.00 normally. The company is called UFly, they are based in Toronto. There is also another company close by that has a full 737NGX non motion simulator. 

 

It was worth moving here from the UK lol

 

I am kinda spoilt really :)

 

Happy New year

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But anyways, Good luck, enjoy your time and have fun - it will be a treat and a blast... I personally don't like simulator time, because every time I go - it's a test that I have to pass or I'm out of a job. It is nice to be able to step foot in one to be able to play. I've only been able to do that once, and it was to fly approaches into Aspen Colorado, and play dodge the mountains :)

 

 

 

 

Thanks. I will defiantly enjoy.

 

 

 

I got one of these online deals (Groupon) I paid $165.00 CDN for the 2 hour package, I think it is $399.00 normally. The company is called UFly, they are based in Toronto. There is also another company close by that has a full 737NGX non motion simulator.

 

 

 

Excellent value, good spot! :P

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I haven't read this thread tbh but as soon as I saw the title it hit me. With a half hour I'd do an engine failure on takeoff and return to the field.

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I haven't read this thread tbh but as soon as I saw the title it hit me. With a half hour I'd do an engine failure on takeoff and return to the field.

 

 

I think it is more benefical to operate a normal take off. Seeing that I have not used any kind of professional simulator before.

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I would do a circuit to begin with so that you get the feel for flying the plane. Even with these "entertainment" simulators they feel extremely different to flying on flight sim, so it is a good idea to get a good feel for the aircraft before you move onto more difficult stuff. This also will allow the instructor to gauge your skill level. 

 

After that, i would just do approaches. Try Queenstown, Kai Tak, airports which are just a bit more than a simple straight in approach. Or fly the same approach into the same airport, with each time increasing the difficulty such as visibility, failures, crosswind etc etc.

 

This is what I would do if I only had 30 minutes. This is just from my experience on flying in both "consumer experience" level simulators such as the one you will be flying on, and Level-D simulators used to train pilots.

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After that, i would just do approaches. Try Queenstown, Kai Tak, airports which are just a bit more than a simple straight in approach. Or fly the same approach into the same airport, with each time increasing the difficulty such as visibility, failures, crosswind etc etc.

 

 

I'm going to do EGKK 26L 08R  without question. This is the airport I most use when going on holiday as a passenger, as well as flight sim. :P

 

I want to start simple with EGKK which is is flat and long, VHHH (or VHHX which?) is famous for the tight finals into 13, but if I miss the approach it might ruin my day.

 

I have got used to Active Sky Next turbulance during a thunder storm in the PMDG using EZDOK, so i might request a bit of turbulance, but not too much as it might be a distraction. Being a fixed base obviously I won't feel anything, but I might see it's effects out the window, as well as see the buffer on the speed tape and artifical horizon.

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