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OzWhitey

Any updates on the performance of 5820K/Haswell E in P3D?

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G'day all,

 

Having read the general forums + Avsim, I'd summarise the status quo as:

 

  • 4790K is certainly the most popular choice for gaming builds in a non-flightsim sense if you're chasing high performance (there are a LOT of threads outside Avsim addressing this topic!)
  • Haswell E is popular if you're rendering or doing other tasks that use the six cores effectively.
  • For flightsim with FSX, single-core performance is king, and the 4790K is the champ in this regard.

I'm about to embark on a new system build in the next few days. I'm still using a computer that I build for FSX 4 years ago (overclocked i7 950), but now it's time to move on.

 

Obviously there's lots of variables with a system build, but I'm interested here in any experience people have with the Haswell-E processors in a FSX/P3D context.

 

I'm building for P3D v2 performance when using photo scenery PLUS large amounts of autogen - I've got terabytes of photo scenery and I use NuVecta for the trees on maximum settings. 

 

In terms of Haswell-E processors, I think I'd stick to the 5820K as a better value proposition than its more expensive siblings. What I've heard about this processor on the Avsim forums is:

 

a. It may not get frame rates as high as the 4790K due to clock speed

b. It should load ground textures more efficiently due to the two extra cores

 

My questions are:

 

re: a. - is this actually true if you overclock? It seems the Core i7-5820K has better thermal interface material than the Ivy Bridge chips. I'm on air with a Noctua NH-14 at the moment but will be moving to water cooling for the new build.

 

re: b. I've only seen one comment from an Avsimmer who's actually tried this, which was positive. Do we have any other real-world experience with the 5820K in P3D v2 yet?

 

and finally, c. Do you have any other comments on the 4790K vs 5820K decision with regards to the specific application described above (P3D v2 + hi-res photoscenery + autogen)?

 

Thanks for any opinions and/or experimental data that you can provide me with! 

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

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Hi Rob,

 

Unfortunately I can't help, but am am following this post as I was just about to ask the exact same questions! And by coincidence I also currently have an i7-950.

 

Look forward to any replies.

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Put me down as a follower too Rob :) 

 

Oh and how's that low going across your way, is it going to form or not?

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Heya Rob, 

 

I can only tell, based upon my P3D V2.4 installation, that having one big fat fast core is better than having two cores. When I fly my primary CPU core 1 is flat-lined at 100% busy, while the other two (I run affinity mask = 14 on a non-threaded 4-processor 4770K overclocked to 4.2GHz) are only about 60-70-percent busy. This implies that Core 1 is the limitation at this point, and sometimes it shows up as blurries. 

 

I think you would be better served by using the "king" of Intel processors, the 4790K. Still, I wouldn't mind someone doing some research!    :lol:

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I haven't seen anybody post that they do not have Core 0 running at 100% in P3d 2.4, even with an OCed 4790X. That's just the nature of how P3d is multi-threaded. There is one main thread that overloads Core 0 no matter what one does, as long as one has a high end GPU. The slight single core improvements from one CPU to the other is not going to change frame rates more than 5-10% in P3d. Take a look at these benchmarks for generic single thread performance:

 

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.htm

 

It isn't going to matter that much between a 4790X and the Core i7 5000 series, unless your CPU can't be OCed at all. For example, a 5960X single thread Passmark score (not OCed, 3.00 GHz) is 1996. OC that to 4.5 (which appears doable from online information) and you'd probably get around 2721, which is comparable to a 4790X at 4.4 GHz. Even if the 4790X is slightly faster on a single thread basis, the differences are not substantial.

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Qnh,I'm away from home (over on the east coast, in civilisation where they have computer stores) - so a cyclone may have taken out Hedland by now for all I know :)

 

As to the rest of the comments:

 

Agree that P3D will use all of a single core so that needs to be fast. 5820K should be about 8% faster for a given clock speed than the 4970K. Overclocked, you get about 4.7 GHz from a 4970K, 5820K seems to do about 4.5 Ghz - so the single core performance should be pretty similar.

 

It's been hypothesized on these forums that the extra 2 cores would help with photoscenery loading.

 

As I want to use lots of autogen and get good framerates, I definitely want a very fast core 1. But as I also want 0.5m (or 0.25m) photoscenery with maximum LOD radius I can see the advantage of 2 extra cores.

 

Theory is nice, but it sounds like a bunch of us would love to see some real-world data.

 

If the rest of you aren't going to build a 5820K P3D overclocked monster PC then I'll have to do it myself! :)

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Qnh,I'm away from home (over on the east coast, in civilisation where they have computer stores) - so a cyclone may have taken out Hedland by now for all I know :)

 

 

Yes I know what you mean, whilst not quite as remote as you, Townsville can be a tad limited in computer parts stores - gotta love internet shopping! BOM has the WA region as a moderate cyclone risk for Tuesday and Wednesday. Should be our turn in a couple of weeks if the models are right.

 

There is a thread running at http://www.prepar3d.com/forum-5/topic/i7-5820k/ that discusses the 5820K - links also to Toms Hardware and Guru3D - ignore the obvious troll and some of it makes sense. I'll probably be building, or having a box built for me, in the next couple of weeks - probably through Umart or Mwave.

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If the rest of you aren't going to build a 5820K P3D overclocked monster PC then I'll have to do it myself! :)

 

Good on ya, Mate! (Spoken in a distinct California accent!)   :lol:

 

And Scott, you are coming up on one hell of an anniversary! Congrats!

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Yes, I just noticed that - hey I'm going to be a 12 year old again!

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Well, you all failed to talk me out of it so...just dropped the hammer at PC Case Gear and ordered the new P3D rig parts.

 

If I'm lucky I'll have my components today, if not then tomorrow morning. A sensible fellow would have got it delivered and built the system later - but no, I'm going to pick them up myself and try and fit the new computer in my baggage for the trip home. Not keen to wait a week to try this, plus it sounds like Hedland might be underwater from a cyclone by then at any rate. :)

 

Here's what I've gone with:

 

Case: NZXT 440 in white

PSU: Seasonic platinum 760W - to give me some headroom for the overclock

CPU: 5820K

MOBO: ASRock Extreme 4

RAM: G.Skill DDR4 16 gig 2400

SSD 1 for OS: 256gig Samsung EVO

SSD 2 for P3D and photoscenery: 1TB Samsung EVO

HDD 1 for extra photoscenery: WD Black 4TB

Graphics: EVGA GTX970 For The Win.
Cooling: Release the Kraken! (an X61)

OS: WIn 7 64 bit

 

Build will be for P3D v2.4, plus I'll put x-plane on as well and probably FSX SE. With P3D I've been doing 99% GA flying - A2A 182 with the F1 GTN is kind of awesome.

 

I've got a basic home cockpit that I built for the NGX back in the day but given the absence of this plane at the moment for P3D and the amount of fun I'm having flying through the hills of North Carolina in my A2A Cessna I plan to build a new generic GA simpit based around the 182. 

 

OK PC Casegear - get those parts happening. I'm ready to build!

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Well, you all failed to talk me out of it so...just dropped the hammer at PC Case Gear and ordered the new P3D rig parts.

 

Well one thing you are not going to be crazy about is that 256gig primary hard drive - I have a 512 and 300 is used and  I only have P3D on it with not a lot of addons loaded yet - other than that looks decent - good luck

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Well one thing you are not going to be crazy about is that 256gig primary hard drive - I have a 512 and 300 is used and I only have P3D on it with not a lot of addons loaded yet - other than that looks decent - good luck

He has a 1tb secondary for p3d install

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He has a 1tb secondary for p3d install

 

Ah didn't catch that as I always put my simulator on my primary :)

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Well one thing you are not going to be crazy about is that 256gig primary hard drive - I have a 512 and 300 is used and  I only have P3D on it with not a lot of addons loaded yet - other than that looks decent - good luck

 

G'day Rich, looking at your post and specs, it seems like you have a single 512 Gig drive?

 

I'm going with a 256 gig SSD for the operating system only, plus a 1TB SSD for P3D, plus a 4TB platter drive for extra scenery and flightsim programs.

 

I've just installed Win 7 and P3D/ASN etc on a new 256 gig SSD in my laptop (travelling, but wanted to sim...) - all up it's 103 gig, so I think 256 gig for OS only should be plenty.

 

My desktop back home is running off a 128 gig SSD for the OS (expensive back in 2010!). That does get a bit too full, mainly from iTunes (which I won't be using) but also from some other programs that use a lot of room in the AppData folder (like UT2). That's why I went for 256 gig this time but I did think about just using a 128 gig for the OS again as this build is flightsim only.

 

So I'm guessing you just missed the 1TB EVO SSD for P3D in the build specs? If not and you're finding a way for P3D to REALLY clog up the AppData folder, le me know!

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

Well, see you both beat me to it!

 

Rich, given your reply - do you use a single SSD for convenience/cost, or do you think single drive for OS + P3D gives better performance?

 

I've always separated the two. Don't think it makes much difference in FSX/P3D with SSDs, but any opinions to the contrary?

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Rob

 

Hi Yah Rob:

 

Looks like your good to go - yes I have a ocz512 ssd primary and a samsung evo 512 ssd secondary - I just make a P3D folder on my c: drive and load it there for now it works fine but next build will be 1tb SSD and the others for storing stuff so far works fine but I will still put P3D on c:drive with larger disk when the time comes - good luck with your new system

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Looking good Rob, when do you fly home? Would like to hear some opinions before I build/order mine.

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Looking good Rob, when do you fly home? Would like to hear some opinions before I build/order mine.

Well, I fly home on the 14th but relevance?? I'll be heading down to PCCG in ten minutes or so to see if I can get my gear. :)

 

I know half of it is ready for pickup, never know your luck so I'll hope order 2 is good to go as well.

 

I'll hope to have a flyable system within 48 hours. Will keep you all posted!

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I was just guessing that you'd be installing and tweaking when you got home - looking forward to reports

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I was just guessing that you'd be installing and tweaking when you got home

 

No, that is what most sensible people would do. But i figured you'd want to know how it performs, so I've started the build today. :rolleyes:

 

Hopefully not too much (flighsim) tweaking to be done, it's P3D. Maybe an affinity mask addition but that's about all I can think of right now. Overclock tweaking of the system, well that's a different matter.

 

I got all the parts late this afternoon, and am now about two-thirds done with the physical build - Mobo, CPU, water cooler, SSD and RAM in. Mainly cabling to go after that, then I can start getting the software up and running.

 

I have an external HDD with me with 122 gig of P3D programs (scenery, planes etc). So hopefully can get on and get that installed ASAP.

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fun I'm having flying through the hills of North Carolina in my A2A Cessna

 

What is a fair-haired boy from Oz doing trolling the hills of North Carolina? Ex-pat with a southern accent?    :lol:

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What is a fair-haired boy from Oz doing trolling the hills of North Carolina? Ex-pat with a southern accent?    :lol:

 

Hah, no southern accent here, mate. ^_^

 

Been to TN but never NC - but think I might like it there. Before leaving for 'vacation', though, I tried out the A2A 182 with the F1 GTN 850 in the hills around Andrews-Murphy (KRHP). Made some photoscenery, added the Nuvecta trees, fixed the airports, added some hand-placed objects, ultimate terrain for the night lighting. Not a place people talk about simming in - no Orbx etc - but there's some good hill-country flying to be had there if you can fix the scenery a little. Looking forward to trying it with the 5820K on Wednesday.

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OK, lads, I built it.

 

Physical build went pretty smoothly, the water cooling was something new for me so that probably added a couple of hours (should the fans push or pull? which spacers go with a 2011-3? etc). The NZXT H440 looks beautiful, I've even added LED lights in the case though I'm not sure if they increase flightsim performance all that much.

 

Today was spent getting the software installed. Thunderstorm with a good power surge and outage whilst Win7 was installing its 168 updates had me a bit worried - but everything turned back on OK and the software side of things proved fixable.

 

So did I fly it? Yep, got P3D, Orbx PNW, Megascenery ultrares Boise, ASN, FS Genesis mesh and my custom NC 50cm photoscenery with autogen installed OK this evening.

 

Performance at base clock - 3.3Ghz - was OK but to be honest, a little disappointing.

 

Time to release the Kraken - fans on the watercooler to 100% - and hit the UEFI to see if we could get a bit more than 3.3 GHz.

 

I'm not an overclocking guru by any means, so I think this can be done by anyone with moderate computer skills.

 

Here's the plan:

 

Baseclock on 100

CPU multiplier to 44

vCore to 1.275

Memory from 2133 to 2400

 

Booted no problems, stable as a rock so far after 1-2 hours of P3D simming.

 

Temps were a comfortable 40 degrees at rest rising to a maximum of 62 degrees when P3D was running full pace.

 

So how did it perform?

 

Well, I was really, really impressed with the OC performance.

I started with the default F-22 at Boise over the megascenery ultrares. The photoscenery was sharp and smooth at full pace. It was just a different sim experience to anything I've had before. With frames set to unlimited I was getting between 60 and 100+ - though there's so many variables with the settings I think the numbers are hard to interpret.

 

Next I went to the NC scenery. This is 25cm or 50cm FSET with some hand-placed autogen and trees by nuvecta (and we're talking hundreds or thousands of trees here). Frames were 60-80 with the autogen on, max LOD radius etc - and more so, it was really, really smooth. The scenery just looked way sharper than anything I've seen before, I think because the textures don't 'pop' in.

 

Finally, I moved all the sliders to the right. Initially, it didn't seem to make much difference. Eventually, with traffic, terrain shadows and cloud shadows it seemed less smooth but the frames were still pretty good.

 

So what can you make of that?

 

Firstly, my subjective impression is that a 5820K is a great choice for P3D. My fairly brief test flights felt more like flying than anything I've done before in a sim, i think because of the clarity of the terrain and the smoothness of the sim. Initial reaction - post overclock - was a great, big smile.

 

Secondly, the major reason that's been suggested not to go with the X99/Haswell-E systems is the slow base clock. I'm OK at overclocking i7 9-- chips, but the Haswell-E is a different story and my knowledge is just based on a few hours research on the interwebs. So with decent cooling and reasonable components I think anyone else can get to 4.4 GHz. If we go with the theory that Haswell-E is 5-8% faster clock-for-clock than the i7 4790K that means we're getting the equivalent of about 4.6+ Ghz without really trying too hard. So clock speed is pretty similar, but you're getting two extra cores and DDR4 memory.

 

I'll plan to do some stress testing soon to see if it's really as stable as I think it is. 4.4 GHz was my target as I think it's consistent with a 24/7 overclock for flying rather than benchmarking. As my temps are only up to 60 degrees maximum I'll try some higher clocks tomorrow and see how things go.

 

PNW with KORS and Concrete Muni still needs a test run tomorrow to test landclass+autogen performance. And I suppose I need to test it in a big city like Seattle that's good at killing frames.

 

If anyone wants me to test a specific location with specific settings, let me know. Otherwise, I'll post an update when I have a bit more overclocking and simming data to share.

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Excellent effort, Rob! 

 

I suggest turning on PerfMon to check on what all those cores are doing for you. That high a frame rate with no blurries and smooth performance, you would think they would be doing something!!!

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Rob,

 

Thanks. You've confirmed what I've suspected, based on my reading about the Haswell-E/X99 combo. Most of the Haswell-E benchmark articles that are online say that 4.4-4.5 GHz is readily achievable.

 

Could you do me a favor? Could you run Passmark with your OCed setup and post the result for both multi- and single core? Thanks. Passmark has a 30 day free evaluation period. Make sure that you turn off any extraneous apps and your antivirus.

 

Jay

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This is an excellent post, very interesting and I'm in the exact same position. Waiting to buy this setup pending the results of this post.

 

Thanks Rob.

Jim

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