Sign in to follow this  
Silver_Dragon

FSX: SE. A Dead End?

Recommended Posts

In the last Facebook news here: https://www.facebook.com/fsxinsider/posts/1546163298969253:0

Dovetail talk over your team only can convert FSX to give the multi-player compatibility with Steam, but the problem coming by that paragraph:
 

Our aim with FSX: Steam Edition is to provide a stable standalone simulator which utilises the advantages of the Steam platform. Microsoft remains the developer of FSX and is solely responsible for implementing any new features or content to the core simulator. Meanwhile, Dovetail Games is acting as a publisher for Microsoft and is only licenced to modify the simulator in order to make it Steam compatible. This necessitated updating some of the existing features in the game such as the introduction of Steam multiplayer support to replace the now defunct GameSpy services. Although we have optimised FSX: Steam Edition for use on Steam, in accordance with our licencing agreement with Microsoft we are not at liberty to make significant functionality changes to the simulator.

 

With ACES Studios and MS Flight Simulation team dissolved and closed. How can dovetail fixed stability problems or crash bugs if they can´t make changes into the core simulator files? Has FSX: SE only a placebo to a dead end franchise or MS has "rebuild" some type of team to help dovetail to counter the FSX problems? what happens if some fsx addons will be no compatible this FSX: SE meanwhile no core changes has maked?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I think a lot of people expect DT to remake flightsim - no one knows. What you posted is no suprise to me. DT can make only slight changes to some things. It's not like we're gonna get FS11 from their fixes.

 

FWIW I'm still using FSX Accel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How can dovetail fixed stability problems or crash bugs if they can´t make changes into the core simulator files?

 

 

I think you are interpreting what they say in a way I would not. Read the words themselves more carefully. To quote relevant bits:

 

"Microsoft remains the developer of FSX and is solely responsible for implementing any new features or content to the core simulator. "

 

Get that? New features or content! Not the same as performance tweaks or fixes. Later:

 

"... we are not at liberty to make significant functionality changes to the simulator."

 

Functionality does not include bug fixes or performance improvements. They have effectively already partially transformed the "core simulator" by recompiling it all with a much better optimising compiler suited to today's hardware. Compared to the compilers available in 2006 the 2013 version is far better at producing good code for the current processor architectures. On top of that they've improved the memory management to some extent, as detailed in their list of changes -- and even added to those in the January update (to build 62608).

 

Yes, it's a "dead end" in that it will not develop in terms of new features, better ATC, and so on, but it is surely a very welcome development nonetheless. I am still not liking P3D so much as FSX, and FSX-SE is better as far as I'm concerned. P3D will develop further, and when it is better, for me, I'll switch.

 

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is my hope that Dovetail is working on something new, and that it will not disappoint the community. I think they are using FSX:SE as a way to develop a flight simulating community based on Steam that they can then draw on for the new sim.

 

As Pete said, at a minimum they have breathed new life into FSX. At best they will offer a modern new sim based on 2015 code. Either way it is a win for us. We will just have to wait and see how big a win it is until they release their new product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My wildest Dream right now is that they pick MS FLIGHT where it was left, merge it with the full World coverage of FSX SE, ... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suggest you re-read the original licensing terms its all in there. They have license to release Steam FSX (And fix some bugs which is NOT core functionality btw thats different) and have license to then carry on the franchise using Flight sim technology.

 

As it stands right now we have FSX SP2.5 or SP3 given the amount of tiny things they have already done that add up to a nice update as well as the steam integration. The door they have open to develop the MSFS franchise further is wide open and only time will tell, but they have a cracking start already with FSX Steam edition (we and other 3PD's as already noted elsewhere have already noticed new blood coming into the hobby, only today by lunch I had received multiple steam chat comments and Facebook messages from new comers.)

 

thanks,

Lewis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just glad I now can install two versions of FSX on the same computer. No more "dual boot" setup, or extra developer computer. Good deal for $5.00!

 

As people have allready said. If FSX:SE manages to attract new blood, very good for all of us, if it manages to scare people away, then we always have Prepar3D. And maybe soon, Outerra will turn into something. Looks like there has been some great progress lately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As to Flight with full world coverage, we are there already.  Go to the MS Flight Forum, and read about the Flight Toolkit ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FSX SE is just a re-release of the same old 2006 simulator. It's nice to have it on a more modern, digital distribution platform, but other than that there's no real advantage.

 

I think any "bug fixes" or "optimizations" are just placebo - of course it's going to be smoother and more stable. You're performing a clean installation of the sim, without the bloat of an old installation with tons of add-ons, left-overs of uninstalled and upgraded add-ons etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


FSX SE is just a re-release of the same old 2006 simulator. It's nice to have it on a more modern, digital distribution platform, but other than that there's no real advantage.

 

So you don't feel that being recompiled with a more efficient compiler that generates code optimised for todays CPU's is an advantage ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you don't feel that being recompiled with a more efficient compiler that generates code optimised for todays CPU's is an advantage ?

 

Recompiling the source code will have a minimal, if any, impact on game performance.  What it will do, is make the game more stable for users employing modern operating systems (e.g. Windows 8).  To that end, it will have minimal impact; however, it will not, as you suggest, optimize the code  to take advantage of modern CPUs.  If only you could gain significant performance by simply recompiling the code! BTW, recompiling the code is a somewhat mundane task, unless you’re altering the source code to take advantage of the newer library.  However, DG has stated they haven’t altered any source code; so, we can assume this hasn’t happened. 

 

Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FSX SE is just a re-release of the same old 2006 simulator. It's nice to have it on a more modern, digital distribution platform, but other than that there's no real advantage.

 

I think any "bug fixes" or "optimizations" are just placebo - of course it's going to be smoother and more stable. You're performing a clean installation of the sim, without the bloat of an old installation with tons of add-ons, left-overs of uninstalled and upgraded add-ons etc.

 

Not true. I am using all my add-ons (except ASN at present, waiting for it), and all my sceneries, textures, aircraft and AI. I have deliberately loaded it up to the same level as my FSX installation -- easily done by using the same CFG files (I have full paths in each). FSX-SE is performing far better than FSX-MS.

 

In an underloaded situation, where you get 60+ fps in any case, there will be little difference at all, if any. The limitations are then elsewhere, not in the FS code. It's only when you truly place it under heavy load you see the real difference. and it is quite dramatic.

 

Pete

Recompiling the source code will have a minimal, if any, impact on game performance.  What it will do, is make the game more stable for users employing modern operating systems (e.g. Windows 8).  To that end, it will have minimal impact; however, it will not, as you suggest, optimize the code  to take advantage of modern CPUs.

 

That is simply not true. Every updated version of Microsoft's C/C++ compiler has improved optimisaytions. I've been developing programs is C for many years and I find it very noticeable. The compiler can alter code around to make better use of pipelining and CPU caching, better optimisations by assigning registers differently and so on. The code in FSX-SE is noticeably very different in many places from that in FSX-Acc. 

 

However, DG has stated they haven’t altered any source code; so, we can assume this hasn’t happened.

 

 

That certainly isn't true either! You have obviously not even bothered to read the list of changes they've made, openly published on their Forums.

 

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a dead end 5 years ago and it still is. Badly optimized compare to P3D or X-plane 10. The only reason simmers are holding on to it is because of the addon investment they have in it. Otherwise, they would have switch a long time ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a dead end 5 years ago and it still is. Badly optimized compare to P3D or X-plane 10. The only reason simmers are holding on to it is because of the addon investment they have in it. Otherwise, they would have switch a long time ago.

 

 

Glad you have it all figured out. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a dead end 5 years ago and it still is. Badly optimized compare to P3D or X-plane 10. The only reason simmers are holding on to it is because of the addon investment they have in it. Otherwise, they would have switch a long time ago.

I don't know what you mean by "dead end". I still get enjoyment from it, and even more so with the improvements, including stability, that the Steam Edition has brought. Not to mention companies are still developing new products for FSX.

 

My wife has a 2007 Porsche which she occasionally lets me drive (normally so I can wash it for her <g>). Just because there have been new models since then does not take away any of the enjoyment I get when driving it.

 

There is also the fact that I do not qualify as a student, so purchasing P3D would cost me $200 - something I simply refuse to do, out of a matter of principle.

 

I don't care what the nay-sayers say: FSX-SE has brought many improvements, and they are not "placebos" - I can complete flights I never could before due to OOMs, even after a fresh installation. I am one happy customer!

 

Edit to last paragraph - I meant "I can complete" not cannot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad you have it all figured out. :P

 

When you are in a bad marriage, sometime you have to bit the bullet and divorce instead of living in the past. PMDG is coming to P3D, I already ready to move on. In the meantime, I got a nice 777 in X-plane 10.,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As to Flight with full world coverage, we are there already.  Go to the MS Flight Forum, and read about the Flight Toolkit ^_^

Very true, it is almost there, thanks to stonelance and a couple of other dedicated people. My only problem, after almost 500 hours in MS Flight is the six year old graphics jn FSX. MS Flight is so so much cleaner and it is all about the eye candy for me. I also hope that Dovetail is smart enough to use the Flight engine in their "new" sim. I will buy it.

 

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


My only problem, after almost 500 hours in MS Flight is the six year old graphics jn FSX. MS Flight is so so much cleaner

 

FSX + Orbx Global looks much better than MS Flight ever did.

Your problem with FSX is that you never spent enough on it to realise its potential.

With the addons available now and with todays PC's, FSX is a completly different proposition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually think that having FSX:SE is good just as a back up in case the worst happens to my beloved boxed version. I was only £3.99 in the steam Christmas sale, I'd say totally worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on all the information that I have read so far, it is my opinion that DTG can actually make changes to the game engine. Based on what I have read so far Microsoft still owns FSX, but they are not developing it anymore. A third party company is now doing this, which in this case is Dovetail Games. I suppose that you can think of it kind of it like it was when Bungie (the makers of the Halo franchise) was once a first party developer for MS, just like the Aces Team once was. Bungie made Halo, however MS owns the rights to it. Today, 989 studios are the developers of the Halo franchise. Just last year republishing the old Halo collection that Bungie did, and updating the code to work on the XBOX One. Some of the changes to the core engine probably had to go through Microsoft, such as some of the graphic updates etc etc. Again just my opinion, but based on what I have read, Dovetails can indeed for example make FSX SE DX11 compatible, or any other major change to the core engine if that's something that Microsoft wants to happen. Here's an excerpt from the FSX SE Facebook page and I quote, "We can make changes to the core game like you mentioned Angel but we can not do that as we see fit. It is up to Microsoft to decide what changes if any they want to make".-Dovetails Game (Flight Simulator X Steam Edition Facebook)

 

So in summary I think FSX SE is great! I do believe that much like how 989 Studios carried on Halo for Microsoft by releasing the new next gen Halo series, Dovetail will do the same for Microsoft. They will probably release a new Flight Simulator, based on the work done in FSX, with new graphics and probably 64bit. Or it could be a new engine branded with the MS Flight Simulator name. For now we have FSX SE with some awesome bug fixes (haven't seen an OOM since installing), and who knows, if we demand it maybe Microsoft will give Dovetails the green light to enable DX11, or maybe they already have. I guess we just have to wait and see.

 

Very exciting times in this hobby. Change is good.

 

Sources:https://www.facebook.com/fsxinsider/posts/1546163298969253:0

See Post from 1/20/2015 comments section.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


of course it's going to be smoother and more stable. You're performing a clean installation of the sim, without the bloat of an old installation with tons of add-ons, left-overs of uninstalled and upgraded add-ons etc.

If you install both versions( I did) and run them without any add-on ( which I also did) only default textures and so on, I can tell you that the boxed version doesn't even come close to level of smoothness  you get with the Steam version.I mean, how can it be a "placebo effect" if we don't even need to tweak the cfg?. Think about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a dead end 5 years ago and it still is. Badly optimized compare to P3D or X-plane 10. The only reason simmers are holding on to it is because of the addon investment they have in it. Otherwise, they would have switch a long time ago.

 

No, I'll switch to P3D when it is better on my system. Currently it looks worse than FSX and performs worse than FSX-SE. I do have both Academic and Professional licenses for it, and i have been developing for it, but it needs to look good to me and perform better. I'm sure it will, one day, but it isn't there yet -- for me.

 

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I'll switch to P3D when it is better on my system. Currently it looks worse than FSX and performs worse than FSX-SE. I do have both Academic and Professional licenses for it, and i have been developing for it, but it needs to look good to me and perform better. I'm sure it will, one day, but it isn't there yet -- for me.

 

Pete

That I understand Pete. I guess my hardware differs from yours.  I get the exact opposite effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this