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Gregg_Seipp

Hey devs...charging for both FSX and P3D can hurt

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I have been trying for 9 months now to switch over to P3D.  Problem is, I don't *yet* see a big advantage to switching over completely.  To be sure, there are advantages but there are also disadvantages and, with every release, I install and tune it up to see where it is.  It's getting there, slowly.

 

So, while I'm working on this, I look at products to buy and I come across some that come out and some of them want me to buy both an FSX and P3D version.  Well, I'm not planning on keeping FSX for that much longer so I don't want to get the FSX version.  On the other hand, I don't want to buy the P3D version only since I'm not there yet.  I'm between the two and I think there are others in the same boat.  So, I buy neither. 

 

To be clear, nobody in their right mind wants to maintain both FSX and P3D at the same time so I wonder who is the target customer for selling both.  They're only doing it because they have to.  It's far too time consuming and problematic to keep them both up to date and tuned.  You install something in one, make any adjustments you need to make...go to the other and make a different set of adjustments.  Keep it up and you're never going to fly.  If you screw something up (or the installer doesn't do something well with your setup, you have to fix it, get support, do all kinds of stuff.  There are way too many things to do.

 

Also, to be clear, I don't mind paying a small fee for getting a 'both' version.  Yeah, it takes some work to make the installers and functionality work on both but, honestly, you're able to sell it to more folks if you make it for both so there is that.  But, full price or nearly full price for each for a both version makes me give it a pass.  I have to wait.  Also, consider this.  If people buy only the FSX version of your product then they're going to be more slow to move to P3D which means that FSX will be hanging around longer which means you'll have to keep doing more work...two installers...testing two platforms.  Painful and it slows product development down.

 

Now, it's your right to sell it for both at (near) full price.  I can't argue with that.  But there is a cost and some pain with doing it that way.  Just sayin'.

 

 


Gregg Seipp

"A good landing is when you can walk away from the airplane.  A great landing is when you can reuse it."
i7-8700 32GB Ram, GTX-1070 8 Gig RAM

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Now, it's your right to sell it for both at (near) full price.  I can't argue with that.  But there is a cost and some pain with doing it that way.  Just sayin'.

You make some very good points. I have decided to not get into the discussion of prices. Just too much drama there for me....LOL It does almost seem that right now the Dev's are all spread way too thin. I hope in the long run this works out to be a good thing. More platforms make more work and that is good for jobs.

 

I made the decision to go completely to Prepar3D and have removed FSX from my Flight Sim Computer. I am very happy with that decision except that waiting on quality releases for P3D can be painful. Case in point...the wait right now for the New Duke P3D version. I just figure one good model from Realair or A2A is better than 3 or 4 of the Carenado type products. So buying quality instead of quanity ends up being cheaper in the long run.


Sam

Prepar3D V5.0/8086K@5.0/EVGA 1080TI SC Black/850W PSU/Windows 10/40" 4K Samsung Monitor@3840x2160/ASP4/ASCA/ORBX/ChasePlane/General Aviation/Vertx DA-62/

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I'm a bit confused here. You are running both FSX & P3D? (Why not FSX:Steam as well?)

 

& you say...

"To be clear, nobody in their right mind wants to maintain both FSX and P3D at the same time so I wonder who is the target customer for selling both."

 

You should know by now that FSX & P3D are 2 different programs, marketed by 2 different companies. Well, FSX dead for the last 8 years, but noe re-distributed by Dovetail.

 

So you should know that there are 2 different target markets... the enthusiast/hobby guy/gamer for the FSX franchise, & the more serious training/learning/'not for entertainment' guys.

 

So,you must consider FSX & P3D as 2 different programs(similar yes), so decide what you want. I'm sure you are aware that there are developers that DO develope for both, with dual installers, & there are those that develop for either, depending on licensing agreements.

 

So, choose which way you want to swing, & try not to expect freebies.

 

Why on earth would you want a dual install & fly the same plane on both sims??

 

I'm sure the devs are not making a huge amount of money from add-ons, support them for whatever you want & for whatever sim you have, the more support either way, the more they will release.


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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Confuses me, also dunno why there are so many with both FSX & FSX:SE?


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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You should know by now that FSX & P3D are 2 different programs, marketed by 2 different companies. Well, FSX dead for the last 8 years, but noe re-distributed by Dovetail.

 

So you should know that there are 2 different target markets... the enthusiast/hobby guy/gamer for the FSX franchise, & the more serious training/learning/'not for entertainment' guys.

 

So,you must consider FSX & P3D as 2 different programs(similar yes), so decide what you want. I'm sure you are aware that there are developers that DO develope for both, with dual installers, & there are those that develop for either, depending on licensing agreements.

 

So, choose which way you want to swing, & try not to expect freebies.

 

Why on earth would you want a dual install & fly the same plane on both sims??

 

I'm sure the devs are not making a huge amount of money from add-ons, support them for whatever you want & for whatever sim you have, the more support either way, the more they will release.

 

While I do own both, I'm trying to move *off* of FSX to P3D.  The goal is to get rid of FSX so, no, I don't want to fly an airplane on both sims because I can't even imagine trying to maintain both sims at the same time.  But P3D is not ready yet...not for me.  So, my current decision is to stay with FSX and buy only add-ons that I can use now until I'm ready to make the move.  But, I don't want to buy any software that I'd have to throw away when I move...waste of money.

 

EDIT:  To be clear, I don't maintain P3D.  I install it and tune it up when a new release comes out and evaluate it to see if I want to move to it.  So far, the answer has been no.  I just installed 2.4 3 days ago with one aircraft and one piece of scenery for evaluation.  I did try to maintain both for a while but it was painful so I quit.

 

What is that you use FSX for that you can't use P3D and get the same pleasure?

 

Mostly anti-aliasing, water effects, stability, and some of my add-ons are still not working there.  More and more are being ported, though, so that's a good thing.  I just installed 2.4 the other day so I've yet to get it tuned up sufficiently to see how it is.

 

 

 

Confuses me, also dunno why there are so many with both FSX & FSX:SE?

 

Some people bought it but haven't installed it...just using it for a backup product.  Others bought it so they could test and see what it offered in comparison with MS-FSX,  Still others want the online compatibility.  But it's another product with a new set of installation woes.  Seems to solve VAS issues but some products aren't working with it yet.  Ultimately, I think it will replace MS-FSX for many.


Gregg Seipp

"A good landing is when you can walk away from the airplane.  A great landing is when you can reuse it."
i7-8700 32GB Ram, GTX-1070 8 Gig RAM

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I would like to see the actual download figures from Steam, & also, how many of those are actually still playing. Remember, Steam is a gaming distributor & flight simming is a new type of game for those guys. Interesting as well, is the type of DLC's they have released. Great marketing, as they are pretty simple, as not to scare the gamers away.

So, their target market for releases are their existing customer base. Those simmers 'in the know', or streetwise, will get the usual freeware & payware stuff...

Pity the poor devs that have to cater for us lot!


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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It does almost seem that right now the Dev's are all spread way too thin. I hope in the long run this works out to be a good thing. More platforms make more work and that is good for jobs.

 

Unfortunately not. Most developers would rather have one platform to supply. There are now three platforms (4 if you count X-plane), and the more complex the product the more likely it is that there are headaches making one product work in all or any of the three. It has little or no impact on jobs. The same teams with the same staff just work harder to try and catch up. While it's true that some users have two or even all three sims running, most settle for one platform. So in fact the total number of users of the kind who like decent addons doesn't change much, and in fact is probably decreasing overall due to competition for their attention from iphone apps, casual games, online shootem ups and other activities.

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Quite right, maybe we will see the add-on market becoming diluted. That would be sad.

Imagine the moaning that will happen then! lol.


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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Unfortunately not. Most developers would rather have one platform to supply. There are now three platforms (4 if you count X-plane), and the more complex the product the more likely it is that there are headaches making one product work in all or any of the three. It has little or no impact on jobs. The same teams with the same staff just work harder to try and catch up. While it's true that some users have two or even all three sims running, most settle for one platform. So in fact the total number of users of the kind who like decent addons doesn't change much, and in fact is probably decreasing overall due to competition for their attention from iphone apps, casual games, online shootem ups and other activities.

Good points you make and kind of backs up my fears. Guys like yourself and A2A will always have a market because you have proven yourselves to be the very best.


Sam

Prepar3D V5.0/8086K@5.0/EVGA 1080TI SC Black/850W PSU/Windows 10/40" 4K Samsung Monitor@3840x2160/ASP4/ASCA/ORBX/ChasePlane/General Aviation/Vertx DA-62/

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I have 5 sims installed - FS9, FSX, FSX:SE, P3D1 and P3D2. Love it! I have one sim doing one thing only, so no problem. Ans since none of the sims need to have "everything" installed into them, they work fast and flawlessly.

 

I never buy anything unless I think the price is fair. There isn't a must have addon in my book. I have no problem if dual install addons are a little bit more expensive, but I only buy P3D addons at this stage anywa, and don't want to support any further FSX developments.


Simmerhead - Making the virtual skies unsafe since 1987! 

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To be clear, nobody in their right mind wants to maintain both FSX and P3D at the same time

 

Once again, someone who thinks that because the way they "play" the game, everyone else should want to play it the same way or they are crazy.

 

Don't tell me how I should install my games and don't tell me I'm out of my mind by doing so. The nerve!

 

I have and want to maintain FSX and P3D, oh and on top of that X-Plane! 

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I have 5 sims installed - FS9, FSX, FSX:SE, P3D1 and P3D2.

 

 

 


Don't tell me how I should install my games and don't tell me I'm out of my mind by doing so. The nerve!

 

Fair enough.


Gregg Seipp

"A good landing is when you can walk away from the airplane.  A great landing is when you can reuse it."
i7-8700 32GB Ram, GTX-1070 8 Gig RAM

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Quite right, maybe we will see the add-on market becoming diluted.

That would be suicidal for any developer that doesn't get users don't want to pay twice or three times for what is *mostly* the same product.

 

Yes, there is some additional burden to support more than one platform, but supporting FSX, P3D and FSX:SE is not NEARLY as complex as supporting something like, let's say, IOS and Android, or PC and Mac, and this is done every day, even by very small developers and one-man shows.

 

We never charged more than once, just to support an additional platform.

 

Many of our products are still available for FS9, FSX, P3D and FSX:SE with the same license, and we try to apply the rule that, a license to a product is a license to a product, regardless how many platforms it supports, because additional platforms also means more new customers, and it doesn't feel right asking more money to existing users just because there's a new platform out there.

 

If the cost of supporting more than one platform is *reasonable*, we would gladly take it on us, and allow existing users to have the easiest and cheapest transition to a new platform, that will in the end benefit us too (new sims are hopefully better, more bug-fixed, etc.), and will help preventing a fragmentation of the user base.

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Great Post Umberto. And that is the reason I own all products  from FSDT and Flightbeam.


System: X-PLANE 11.40, P3D 4.5, ASUS Maximus XI Hero,  Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.0GHz, Corsair AIO H115i Pro, Corsair Spec Omega Case,Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200Mhz RAM, EVGA 850+ Gold PSU,Win 10 Pro 64-bit, LG 43UD79 43" 4K IPS Panel., Logitech X56 Hotas Stick and Throttle, Logitech/Saitek Flight Yoke System, Multi, Radio, Switch Panels

 

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