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Dark_Oblivion

Navigraph S550 Citation II FMS Extension Pack | video review and test flight

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I made a short video to demonstrate the new navigraph extension pack for the Carenado Citation II, hope it's useful!

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Hi thanks for the video.

 

I've got a few questions from my end:

 

Can you select a departure runway from an airport that doesn't have a SID/DP?  Because I fly USA and I cannot select a dep runway unless the airport contains a departure procedure.

 

Using P3D the VNAV button disconnects the AP completely.  I wonder if this is because I'm using P3D2.5.  On your FSX video VNAV button loads the VNAV info into the AP you're saying?

 

Your EHSI NAV SRC is still VOR1, but it appears the AP is tracking the course driven by the FMS.  I think they need to make the NAV SRC available as FMS or LNAV etc (that should be the realistic way to get the FMS to drive the CDI on the EHSI)...  You're saying you pressed the NAV button the FMS to get the AP to follow the track provided by the FMS?  The NAV button in real life doesn't do that hehe...  I suppose it's just a shortcut or something they did.  The NAV button should show current leg info, like distance to fix, next fix, time to fix, wind components, etc.

 

In your video around 10:30 time, say you wanted to DTO to CPT55....  on my end if I do that it won't work.  The FMS will update showing CPT55 in pink but the EHSI won't show a DTO course to that fix from present position.  Have you tried doing that?  This is the biggest issue I have with the thing.... no PPOS DTO (present pos direct to) is available.

 

I've also found an issue with the VS knob... once I tried pressing VNAV (turning the AP on and off), I couldn't manually set a vertical speed rate with that wheel ever again... it just defaults to its usual setting of 1000 fpm.  I think I saw something similar in your video here.

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Great video. Feeling a bit of relief actually since I now saw that one can use this gauge update as opposed to wondering where the fps went or how it will ever drive the plane properly. :ph34r:

 

My questions: The display seems very cluttered with waypoints. Is that by design and can you reduce them to just show the route?

 

Regarding the route, it seems to draw nice curves, but on your STAR it drew a long line well beyond the display range (it seems). I understand that this had something to do with your choice of the STAR and not with a general problem of the gauge, always adding such lines.

 

That default '28000' value for new waypoints seems odd and I would fear that it mixes up the VNAV calcs.

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Hi thanks for the video.

 

I've got a few questions from my end:

 

Can you select a departure runway from an airport that doesn't have a SID/DP?  Because I fly USA and I cannot select a dep runway unless the airport contains a departure procedure.

 

Using P3D the VNAV button disconnects the AP completely.  I wonder if this is because I'm using P3D2.5.  On your FSX video VNAV button loads the VNAV info into the AP you're saying?

 

Your EHSI NAV SRC is still VOR1, but it appears the AP is tracking the course driven by the FMS.  I think they need to make the NAV SRC available as FMS or LNAV etc (that should be the realistic way to get the FMS to drive the CDI on the EHSI)...  You're saying you pressed the NAV button the FMS to get the AP to follow the track provided by the FMS?  The NAV button in real life doesn't do that hehe...  I suppose it's just a shortcut or something they did.  The NAV button should show current leg info, like distance to fix, next fix, time to fix, wind components, etc.

 

In your video around 10:30 time, say you wanted to DTO to CPT55....  on my end if I do that it won't work.  The FMS will update showing CPT55 in pink but the EHSI won't show a DTO course to that fix from present position.  Have you tried doing that?  This is the biggest issue I have with the thing.... no PPOS DTO (present pos direct to) is available.

 

I've also found an issue with the VS knob... once I tried pressing VNAV (turning the AP on and off), I couldn't manually set a vertical speed rate with that wheel ever again... it just defaults to its usual setting of 1000 fpm.  I think I saw something similar in your video here.

I'm going to have to test these questions out in FSX so I'll get back to you later.

 

 

Great video. Feeling a bit of relief actually since I now saw that one can use this gauge update as opposed to wondering where the fps went or how it will ever drive the plane properly. :ph34r:

 

My questions: The display seems very cluttered with waypoints. Is that by design and can you reduce them to just show the route?

 

Regarding the route, it seems to draw nice curves, but on your STAR it drew a long line well beyond the display range (it seems). I understand that this had something to do with your choice of the STAR and not with a general problem of the gauge, always adding such lines.

 

That default '28000' value for new waypoints seems odd and I would fear that it mixes up the VNAV calcs.

Glad it helped :)

 

Unfortunately there is no way that I can find to turn off the waypoints/airports etc. for the MFD, as there is no GFX control to turn them off like there is for the EHSI

 

That was just because of the STAR choice, because it essentially went back on itself and it doesn't remove the previous waypoints from the MFD, so it just got a bit cluttered.

 

I didn't get that, are you sure you haven't set 28000 as your cruise altitude the in the FSX flight planner?

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I didn't get that, are you sure you haven't set 28000 as your cruise altitude the in the FSX flight planner?

I can only react to what I saw in videos (yours and others) re: the FMC upgrade and it seemed like any new waypoint came in with a '28000' instead of blank or some (calculated) value fitting between the other waypoints.

 

I just think that, if one adds a waypoint to an already existing plan, the default 28000 value is able to cause a mixup of the VNAV calcs as it may try to reach each specified altitude no matter what.

 

The last paragraph is an assumption of mine. Maybe it's much more solid than I think and also distinguishes between hard and soft (altitude) constraints. Anyway, thanks for the reports and notes. Please keep them coming. :smile:

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Ah I see what you mean CoolP, sorry! I hadn't noticed that when I recorded it because it changed the altitude after I entered the STAR.

I suspect, like you said, that is just the default altitude that it enters once you add a way point. I'll test it later and see if it recalculates it once you have completed your flight plan and if not what happens if you leave it at 28000 :)

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Hi thanks for the video.

 

I've got a few questions from my end:

 

Can you select a departure runway from an airport that doesn't have a SID/DP?  Because I fly USA and I cannot select a dep runway unless the airport contains a departure procedure.

 

Using P3D the VNAV button disconnects the AP completely.  I wonder if this is because I'm using P3D2.5.  On your FSX video VNAV button loads the VNAV info into the AP you're saying?

 

Your EHSI NAV SRC is still VOR1, but it appears the AP is tracking the course driven by the FMS.  I think they need to make the NAV SRC available as FMS or LNAV etc (that should be the realistic way to get the FMS to drive the CDI on the EHSI)...  You're saying you pressed the NAV button the FMS to get the AP to follow the track provided by the FMS?  The NAV button in real life doesn't do that hehe...  I suppose it's just a shortcut or something they did.  The NAV button should show current leg info, like distance to fix, next fix, time to fix, wind components, etc.

 

In your video around 10:30 time, say you wanted to DTO to CPT55....  on my end if I do that it won't work.  The FMS will update showing CPT55 in pink but the EHSI won't show a DTO course to that fix from present position.  Have you tried doing that?  This is the biggest issue I have with the thing.... no PPOS DTO (present pos direct to) is available.

 

I've also found an issue with the VS knob... once I tried pressing VNAV (turning the AP on and off), I couldn't manually set a vertical speed rate with that wheel ever again... it just defaults to its usual setting of 1000 fpm.  I think I saw something similar in your video here.

 

I couldn't select a departure runway either, but I can't imagine this is much of an issue as you would essentially be flying direct to your first waypoint anyway.

 

Yeh that's right, if you click the VNAV button first (before any other buttons) then it will load the NAV and VNAV data into the autopilot but you have to click it twice if you have already clicked on NAV.
 
I found that confusing too, as once I had activated the NAV I couldn't figure a way to disconnect the FMS from the EHSI, despite the fact it was tracking the ILS from VOR1. But yeh you have to press the NAV button which is a bit odd...as you are right it would normally just provide leg information.

 

I've found that the DTO function does work but in a very bizzare way. Rather than flying straight to the way point it will on the current heading until it can track the same course as between the point before the one selected and the point selected (sorry if that's a poor description), i.e. it's completely broken :P

 

I've found that the VS adjustments are all over the place, that's one of the more annoying problems at the moment.

 

I can only react to what I saw in videos (yours and others) re: the FMC upgrade and it seemed like any new waypoint came in with a '28000' instead of blank or some (calculated) value fitting between the other waypoints.

 

I just think that, if one adds a waypoint to an already existing plan, the default 28000 value is able to cause a mixup of the VNAV calcs as it may try to reach each specified altitude no matter what.

 

The last paragraph is an assumption of mine. Maybe it's much more solid than I think and also distinguishes between hard and soft (altitude) constraints. Anyway, thanks for the reports and notes. Please keep them coming. :smile:

So having tested it the FMS doesn't correct the calculation and it just sets the VS to the amount required to reach the altitude of the next waypoint no matter how high >_< So if necessary it will set it to the max (6000ft/s) and it will keep banking the plane up until it stalls.... not the best!!!

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So if necessary it will set it to the max (6000ft/s) and it will keep banking the plane up until it stalls.... not the best!!!

Woohoo! :Black Eye: Thanks for testing, Dark_Oblivion. I agree with your conclusion. Guess one has to fire up a ticket to C. for getting that fixed.

 

Regarding the direct-to feature, I think lzamm (other thread) explained the background and pointed out that the current rendition might actually perform an 'activate leg' instead of a real direct-to. Referring to your statement:

I've found that the DTO function does work but in a very bizzare way.

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Yeh definitely looks like there are a lot of bugs that Carenado need to iron out...looking forward to SP2 already!!!

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I tried to fly direct to 7AK2 from Juneau, one of my favorites and it would not accept it. I also found it too cluttered. I have uninstalled it until I see some sort of service pack fix these things.

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I don't blame you Peter, the more I fly the citation the more bugs I find with the plane and the FMS. It's very frustrating but I'm sticking with it at the moment because I love the aircraft when it works.

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Hello Dark_Oblivion,

 

Loved your video great stuff!!! 

 

Just one question to you, Have you tried to program the FMS for a flight that does not contain the same waypoint ending the SId and commencing on the STAR?

 

I have tried to program the FMS as per the video entering the starting point and destination in the main window, then on the FP page populate the rest of the FP with waypoints. THis is where it gets screwy, when I then select the departure SID or even the STAR at the destination from the "menu/Arrive,Depart page", it wipes out the waypoints entered before. I have tried every combination possible entering the SID first then the waypoints along the FP but then when its time to select the STAR/APPR it wipes the slate clean again, what remains are the Starting point and the starting waypoint of the Star. Is this a bug? Or I am to fly the FP and then prior to getting the first waypoint on the STAR select it? This however would be problematic for Vnav calculation.

 

By the way I did do the Navigraph update to AIRAC 1504. No issues there!!!

 

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for all the support!!

 

Lorenzo

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Hello fellow aviators! Glad to see I'm not the only one having trouble with the S550. The FMS addon took AGES updating the database (new AIRAC). I also found that I would have to reduce the range on the nav display to 1 in order to achieve a usable framerate. The cluttering on is quite massive with no option to reduce it. Takes a massive hit on my frames too. 

 

I guess we'll have to wait for the first service pack. I am certain, that the guys over at Carenado will get the bugs ironed out.

 

Happy landings!

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Sorry for my english, but I have e question.

 

I saw that if I load a Flightplan created eg with the planner P3D in PLN (or or other programs), it is not entered automatically in FMC, but if I use the autopilot in GPS function, the aircraft follows the imported route PLN, but it is not shown in the display.

 

It's normal?

 

can I import a PLN direct in FMC or necessarily have to enter by hand?

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Can you select a departure runway from an airport that doesn't have a SID/DP?  Because I fly USA and I cannot select a dep runway unless the airport contains a departure procedure.

 

Why it is important to select a rwy if you don't follow a sid?

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Hello Dark_Oblivion,

 

Loved your video great stuff!!! 

 

Just one question to you, Have you tried to program the FMS for a flight that does not contain the same waypoint ending the SId and commencing on the STAR?

 

I have tried to program the FMS as per the video entering the starting point and destination in the main window, then on the FP page populate the rest of the FP with waypoints. THis is where it gets screwy, when I then select the departure SID or even the STAR at the destination from the "menu/Arrive,Depart page", it wipes out the waypoints entered before. I have tried every combination possible entering the SID first then the waypoints along the FP but then when its time to select the STAR/APPR it wipes the slate clean again, what remains are the Starting point and the starting waypoint of the Star. Is this a bug? Or I am to fly the FP and then prior to getting the first waypoint on the STAR select it? This however would be problematic for Vnav calculation.

 

By the way I did do the Navigraph update to AIRAC 1504. No issues there!!!

 

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for all the support!!

 

Lorenzo

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it :)

 

Yeh I've had that problem too it is really frustrating, in one of my videos I fly from Gloucestershire to Eindhoven and when I inputted the STAR after being cleared by Approach control it wiped all my waypoints before the beginning of the STAR :( So it certainly seems to be a bug. You either have to input your whole route, including SIDS and STARs (which is annoying because the weather can change enroute), or you just have to accept that your waypoints before the STAR will get deleted. Hopefully this will be something they fix in the future.

 

Sorry for my english, but I have e question.

 

I saw that if I load a Flightplan created eg with the planner P3D in PLN (or or other programs), it is not entered automatically in FMC, but if I use the autopilot in GPS function, the aircraft follows the imported route PLN, but it is not shown in the display.

 

It's normal?

 

can I import a PLN direct in FMC or necessarily have to enter by hand?

As far as I am aware you can input pre-made plans into the FMC. I have used the Pro-ATC import function and the FMC has been populated with the route, so it does work. It could be a problem with different folder locations in P3D, so the FMC can't find it, but that's speculation.

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As far as I am aware you can input pre-made plans into the FMC. I have used the Pro-ATC import function and the FMC has been populated with the route, so it does work. It could be a problem with different folder locations in P3D, so the FMC can't find it, but that's speculation.

thank you for answer.

 

It could be that he look at the folder of FSX? 

 

How do you do to import with the Pro-ATC import function? I do not know Pro-ATC, but I think it creates a file similar a PLN and you put in PLN FSX folder or not?

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Yes it could be if you have both installed.

When you activate a route to fly a pop up appears and you have the option to save the route in FSX. There is also a way you to export manually, I believe you right click on the route and then there is an option to export it there.

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Yes it could be if you have both installed.

 

When you activate a route to fly a pop up appears and you have the option to save the route in FSX. There is also a way you to export manually, I believe you right click on the route and then there is an option to export it there.

Thank you for answer.

 

I'm sorry, but I have tried everything, but I can not load in the FMC.
 
Can you tell me if the Pro-ATC file is a PLN and exactly which folder he will save him?
 
thank you

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I cant enter NDB's in to the FMS? My Airac is up to date and when i try to enter RTT NDB the FMS cant find it, but when i select in LOWI a SID with the RTT NDB it is in the list? has anyone else the same problem?

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Has anyone else sent tickets to Carendo about the FMS?

 

I sent my ticket about the waypoints disappearing when i enter the SID or STAR, they asked a couple of questions and heard nothing more from them. I then revised my ticket to hold and behold it was stamped solved!!!! I have sent them another ticket asking how and when it was solved as I had not heard anything back from them!!!

 

This looks to be a dangerous trend being taken up by Carenado of not adequately providing support for paid products!!

 

Anyone else has the same issue????

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I cant enter NDB's in to the FMS? My Airac is up to date and when i try to enter RTT NDB the FMS cant find it, but when i select in LOWI a SID with the RTT NDB it is in the list? has anyone else the same problem?

Also here, cant´t enter any NDB, anybody knows how to enter !

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I made a short video to demonstrate the new navigraph extension pack for the Carenado Citation II, hope it's useful!

 

Great review however I too bought this addon feature for the S550 and I am a bit disappointed.

 

1. When I enter a FP into the FMS, some navaids are not found, for example DDP over Puerto Rico, it's just not there, even with the latest navigraph airac which I find strange. There are a lot of missing waypoints in the application. Anyone noticed this?

 

2. You can't enter an airways, you have to manually enter each waypoint 1 by 1. I can still live without this but it's a must for these types of aircraft.

 

3. When I enable NAV after takeoff to fly the entered route, the waypoints on the FMS don't get removed after passing or flying over them, instead the distance starts increasing instead of decreasing (obviously because I am flying away from it) but the total distance starts adding up in the FMS flight plan.  At the end of my flight I have all the waypoints entered with the total distance from them doubled. They don't get removed automatically. Has anyone seen this happen? Is there any way to fix it.

The aircraft does follow the flight path, just the FMS doesn't update waypoints correctly after passing over them.

 

Hope someone can shed some light over these issues to see if at least problem 1 and 3 can be solved .

I am used to flying a lot of PMDG LEVELD, etc but I understand each developer is different.

 

Regards,

Teo

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