I like to fly airliners and have flown on FS9 for years.  I recently switched to FSX and am having a problem landing.  No matter how slow I try to land it always acts as though my landing speed is much too fast.  When I touch down the aircraft bounces up then I can't get it to stall again until I'm too far down the runway.  When I flew in FS9 I could always kind of "stick" the landing where it stayed down then I could activate my braking and reverse thrusters.  Am I doing something wrong or is there some kind of a bug in the program?

 

maybe you could be more specific about exactly which airplane you are using, exactly what speed, etc. are you sure you configured it correctly for landing with flaps extended etc.. if you are landing in icy or wet conditions maybe you're not losing speed as much on the ground as you're used to? have you tried adjusting your realism settings? i'm not certain but i don't think there is a ton of difference between the flight models in fs9 vs fsx.

 

cheers,

-andy crosby

I am not sure but it could be your angle of attack ( Pitch and touchdown FPM ) Try a airport with a nice long runway where you can practice low profile descents. It sounds like your final descent is too steep.  PS: try the default 737 at 140 knotts with flaps full at touchdown. If your using ILS for landing , disengage it just short of the runway and bring the nose up slightly . Open a second window if need be with a wing view so you can see it's shadow on the runway and try a slow touchdown with about a 3 to 5 % pitch on the nose. 

Do you have the same problem with smaller, GA planes? If you have, train with them first, because they are much easier to master than heavier, faster and less responding airliners. Once you master them, go back to heavies.

 

Do you have joystick or yoke?

It is quite hard to execute flare with joystick. Once I switched to yoke, I discovered new level of flying.

 

Good luck.

I haven't tried it with smaller planes so that's something to look at.  I've flown the 737, 777,787, and usually fly ILS approaches so it's a 3% glideslope.  I dis-engage (is that a word?) the ILS when approximately 500 ft  altitude and fly by hand on down.  I have to admit that I haven't looked at what my speed is doing after turning off the Autopilot and Speed settings so maybe it's coming back up instead of bleeding off like I'm used to in FS9.

It just seems strange that I never had this problem in FS9.  I have set my speed indicator all the way down to stall settings with no change in the bounce.  It does appear that it still wants to fly though so maybe I'll do some approaches and watch what my speed is doing very carefully.  Realism settings are at medium.

.

Just like in the real world, I think seat position has a lot to do with it.

 

What is your zoom setting?

 

If it's anything other than 1.00, try setting it to that (even if you then move the eyepoint back to get a better view of the instruments with Ctrl-Enter etc).

If you have your zoom set to less than 1.00, you're

 

a ) Giving yourself a proportionally smaller target to aim at (i.e. the runway appears 20% smaller at a zoom setting of 0.80).

b ) Making the runway seem further away than it is -- which makes you feel lower than you really are

c ) The aircraft appears to be travelling faster

 

Also, check your eye position in the sim -- make sure it's the same each time. Don't be tempted to 'raise your seat' (Shift-Enter) excessively to get a better view of the runway -- again, this will tend to make you feel low and so you will end up arriving high (exacerbated if your view is also zoomed out). In addition to this, the viewing angle looking down at the runway makes it very hard to judge the flare -- ideally at that point you'd want to be looking along the runway at the far end in order to judge the sink rate.

 

Learn the 'datums' for your aircraft and fly them accurately. Look at how the autopilot is flying the approach: pitch and power (N1/EPR) setting. There's normally a rule of thumb for each particular configuration and approximate landing weight. When you disconnect, aim to maintain this datum with only minor corrections to keep the aircraft on path: keep your control inputs smooth and as small as possible to achieve the desired effect. Move the controls, wait for the aircraft to respond, then gently bring it back again. The more extreme/rapid control inputs you make, the more you are going to end up fighting yourself and not actually making the aircraft do what you want.

 

Finally, the flare itself should generally be a gentle 'check' back -- not a yank -- just enough to break the descent, which usually means raising the nose no more than a degree or two. At the same time, gently retard the thrust levers to reach the idle stop as the mains touch.

 

Listen to the radio altitude callouts to help judge the flare: you generally want something like: "Fifty. Forty. Thirty. Twenty... Ten..." <touchdown>. If it goes "FiftyFortyThirtyTwentyTenBANG" -- you've buried it ;-)

I try to land an airliner at 175 knots (737).  How slow can an airliner land safely?  Is 175 knots too fast for a 747 or a 777?  Also been flying the 787 lately and 175 seems OK.  What's real life speed for these airliners?

 

Stan

It seems to me that your approach speed is far to fast.

 

The approach speed depends on many different things, so it's very tough to give you an accurate approach speed, but for the sake of getting you in the ball park, I'll try.

 

Ruling out weather and winds, taking a medium weight and balance, and assuming flaps 30, your final approach speed for a 737, 767 or 777 will be somewhere between 134 and 148 knots. Any fast than that and you'll experience what you described (the faster the more you'll experience what you've described).

 

The above speeds are only to get you in the ball park.  I'm not sure if you are flying an aircraft with an FMS, but if so then spend some time to program it and it will help you determine the correct approach speeds.

 

I hope this has been helpful.

Yesterday, I have watched the episode of Air Crash Investigations 'Death at Narita' and it reminded me of this thread. I think this could be interesting to everyone to understand how crucial optimal speed and correct approach can be, even for very experienced pilots.

 

Based on CCTV analysis, investigators concluded, that the Pilot Flying was only 0.7 seconds late with flare.

 

Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccSkrNZ7W4Q

 

 

Is 175 knots too fast for a 747 or a 777?

 

Much too fast.

 

At typical (230-260 tonnes) landing weights in the 747-400 you'll generally be looking at somewhere in the region of 145-155kt with flap 25, maybe 135-145kt with flap 30. The 777 is probably a little slower at representative weights.

I'm sorry I haven't responded to all the posts....bit of a family emergency.  I just read through and think I must be trying to land too fast.  In FS9 I landed almost all jets from the B737 to the 747 at around 160-150 kts.  It seemed to work fine in FS9 but not in FSX.  As soon as I'm able to spend some time at it I'll do some experimenting and let you know.  Thanks everyone for the comments and advice.  BTW twojastara, that video was excellent.  Thanks for posting it.

Remember, if you are using the default 737, it,s not particularly good, but adequate.

 

With medium load and about 3 tonnes of fuel left you'll be landing at about 60 Tonnes. Flap 30 is better on normal long runways than 40. speed should be VREF at 142 or so so +5 knots is 146-147kts.

 

In real world ops, we would leave the autopilot and autothrottle in till stabilised and around 1,000ft. Once happy its stable (and trimmed!!), we disconnect both and hand fly down. Flare occurs between 30 and 20 ft though I tend to start at 50ft and gently raise the nose. Thrust should be bought to idle smoothly, but remember closing the taps causes a trim change so you must pull more to counteract the pitch/power couple.

 

The real finesse is to feel it into ground effect and drop the nose slightly in the flare to push it into the ground effect and lessens the feeling of the main gear touching down. Reverse idle right away and lower the nose as you increase reverse. 

 

Every day is a competition and I rarely lose! 

Ok, I just flew an approach and it's apparent I was landing with my speed too high.  I do have a couple of questions that may or may not be related: 

1.  Should my airspeed in the settings menu be set for true or indicated?  This seems to make a big difference.

2.  In the panels I have (and several others I have tried) I can't figure out how to get my ILS display to show so that I know when it is captured.  All I seem to be able to select is either arc or rose and the ILS loc and G/S doesn't show on either setting.  Is there something I'm missing here?

Thanks again for the responses.  I sure wouldn't have figured this landing speed out without them.

Ok, I just flew an approach and it's apparent I was landing with my speed too high.  I do have a couple of questions that may or may not be related: 

1.  Should my airspeed in the settings menu be set for true or indicated?  This seems to make a big difference.

2.  In the panels I have (and several others I have tried) I can't figure out how to get my ILS display to show so that I know when it is captured.  All I seem to be able to select is either arc or rose and the ILS loc and G/S doesn't show on either setting.  Is there something I'm missing here?

Thanks again for the responses.  I sure wouldn't have figured this landing speed out without them.

I should have added: The aircraft and panels are downloaded freeware.  I guess it's possible the panel makers didn't include the ILS panel but every one I had with FS9 had them so I assumed they would be available in FSX

I fly 2D panels

IAS indicated is what speed you plane sees and is what keeps it in the air. Plane doesnt care abt true only we do. True airspeed is its airspeed over the ground taking into act wind altiude etc. a plane at 40 000 ft may be flying at 330 kts IAS and 450 kts true, its the IAS which the Pitot sees its what the plane experienes over the wings . Set it to IAS. GPS will show true

 

Another way of putting it. You are 50ft above the ground at 145 kts indicated into a 100 kt head wind. Your true air speed is only 45 kts relative to teh ground, means your landing will be nice and short, now if the wind was up your rear you true airspeed would be 245 kts but if you pulled the throttle to reduce speed you would stall as the IAS which is thew speed of the wind passing over the wing would be too low and plane wont fly.

Close, but not quite right ;-)

 

You are absolutely correct in saying that IAS is a measure of dynamic pressure and therefore important in terms of operating the aircraft. However, you are a little confused about TAS.

 

True Airspeed (TAS) in (very) basic terms is the aircraft's speed relative to the air mass (not the ground). As the aircraft climbs, the air density reduces (=fewer air molecules enter the pitot probe for a given airspeed) so the airspeed indicator will indicate a speed lower than the TAS.

 

Ground Speed (GS) is the aircraft's speed over the ground and is the TAS corrected for wind.

 

TAS and GS are useful for navigation, because navigation generally involves travelling from one point on the ground to another.

 

IAS, on the other hand, is useful for aircraft performance because, generally speaking, an aircraft will stall at the same indicated airspeed regardless of density altitude or true airspeed.

 

 

 

2.  In the panels I have (and several others I have tried) I can't figure out how to get my ILS display to show so that I know when it is captured.  All I seem to be able to select is either arc or rose and the ILS loc and G/S doesn't show on either setting.  Is there something I'm missing here?
Thanks again for the responses.  I sure wouldn't have figured this landing speed out without them.

 

Without knowing the specific panel you're referring to it's difficult to answer this easily -- all I would say is to ensure that you have the ILS frequency correctly tuned and you are within range (in FS, within 25NM and below about 7,000ft for the localiser -- the glideslope often doesn't pop up until much closer in).