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jcomm

P3Dv2 777 prices...

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No Rant intended, because I knew what I could expect after I decided to go for P3Dv2, and I am seriously considering the 744 when released ( I guess around August, just like the original Queen of the skies in 2006 :-) ), but heck! They're EXPENSIVE!!!

 

The 777 base package sells for $135 ?

 

I know it's a complex, and very enjoyable add-on ( had it for FSX ), but why that price ?

 

Well, I somehow answer myself considering the fact that whenever P3D get's updated sometimes compatibility is a problem, forcing developers to do further work on a given model to account for whatever changes were introduced. This could be a justification, but I'm not sure if it is the only one?

 

Does the P3Dv2 model include further details than the FSX ?

 

 

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Does the P3Dv2 model include further details than the FSX ?

 

No

============================

 

Dont forget 64bit version is free

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Part of the purchase is if P3D goes 64 you will get a working 63 product for free

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There was an introductory price break ($90 US) on the P3D 777 but you missed it.

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Jose-

 

I struggled with this too. So ultimatley I decided it would be ridiculoius to pay for the SAME plane twice. There's nothing wrong with FSX.

 

Instead, I will be buying future planes for P3D.

 

IF AND WHEN P3D go 64 bit, and PMDG figures out how to convert, then I will evaluate it.

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Ok, yes Guy's mostly what I think too, but the upcoming 744 is a must, and in my to buy list for quite a long time ;-)

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Jose-

 

I struggled with this too. So ultimatley I decided it would be ridiculoius to pay for the SAME plane twice. There's nothing wrong with FSX.

 

Instead, I will be buying future planes for P3D.

 

IF AND WHEN P3D go 64 bit, and PMDG figures out how to convert, then I will evaluate it.

 

This whole thing gets extremely boring. It is NOT the same plane. To different platforms. There is an FSX version at one price and a P3D version at a different price. If you don't like PMDG pricing policy for P3D products then don't buy them. End of..........

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Dave,

 

did you read the OP ?

 

I'm not ranting, OK ?  Just trying to find out what additional stuff we get in the P3d versions.

 

Thank you.

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Dave,

 

did you read the OP ?

 

I'm not ranting, OK ?  Just trying to find out what additional stuff we get in the P3d versions.

 

Thank you.

Well you get the PMDG 777 for P3D. Your comparison with the FSX version is irrelevant as they are two separate platforms.

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Just trying to find out what additional stuff we get in the P3d versions.

 

I believe you get nothing extra in either of the versions, FSX or P3D. Both are identical in every respect and the higher price point is (if memory serves me correctly) due to higher licensing costs for P3D. The price of the P3D version has kept me from re-buying the same add on too. I'll continue enjoying both the NG and the 777 in FSX and my next purchase will probably be the 747 for P3D, provided it's in the double digits - which I highly doubt.

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1) There are no differences between the FSX and P3D versions.

2) The price is due to licensing costs and P3Dv3 compatibility updates, including x64 architecture re-coding.

 

3) The price for the PMDG 777 and 'new entrants' will increase significantly once 64-bit conversion has occurred.

4) PMDG has said their P3D product is for those who want to learn more about the 777 airliner (academic reasons), since P3D use for entertainment purposes is not permitted.

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I'm a bit confused with "licensing costs" since other developers have released P3D versions either as a free new installer, or the same price as the FSX version.

 

But, PMDG can do as they wish, it's their product after all.

 

You also state the 777 price will go up once they release a 64bit version for new customers. Why would that be? I can't say I've heard of that before but I'm not fully up to date with all the in's and out's

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You also state the 777 price will go up once they release a 64bit version for new customers. Why would that be? I can't say I've heard of that before but I'm not fully up to date with all the in's and out's

 

 

The expectation is that a single license will carry you through all minor P3D v2.x and v3.x updates.  We can't really see beyond the 3.x event horizon just yet- so I don't want to comment on anything over that horizon- but it puts any further requirements a couple years out based on our own estimates of LM's progress.

 

Obviously we cannot offer a license into infinity, as we wouldn't be able to reasonably maintain continued development that way- but I anticipate seeing x64 arrive with P3D v3.0... 

 

The license cost in P3D will go up rather significantly for new entrants once we hit v3.x and x64 compatibility...  Which is why we are offering the promotional pricing now...

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/461652-07feb15-pmdg-777-200lrf-300er-for-p3d-released/?view=findpost&p=3172483

 

Unless, they're just talking about that $135 price that it is at already. It's not quite clear to me.

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I read that quote above and it doesn't say to me that they are specifically paying a higher license cost to anyone else.  It reads that the license cost - i.e. the cost to you for licensing the pmdg aircraft will go up.

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I'm a bit confused with "licensing costs" since other developers have released P3D versions either as a free new installer, or the same price as the FSX version.

 

 

 

I read that quote above and it doesn't say to me that they are specifically paying a higher license cost to anyone else.  It reads that the license cost - i.e. the cost to you for licensing the pmdg aircraft will go up.

 

That quote was for a different context.

 

When I said licensing costs, it's to reference that the end user's, not PMDG's, license is for a different purpose, and therefore will have a different cost. For instance, the 777 for FSX is licensed for entertainment purposes, while the PMDG general-purpose license is for more academic reasons and not for entertainment as that is obviously not permitted by Lockheed Martin (in their own bright red words).

 

There's no way I could know what licenses PMDG have to abide by.

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Daniel, I am thinking the same as you are, thats how I read that quote as far as the end users cost.

 

    I thought there might have been some confusion others were having thinking the end user cost was going up because of higher license costs PMDG might have had with a third party.

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I'm a bit confused with "licensing costs" since other developers have released P3D versions either as a free new installer, or the same price as the FSX version.

 

A few things to consider when it comes to why some devs offer a free license for their product across multiple platforms like FSX and P3D.

 

First, for scenery developers they are not paying licensing fees to airports or ground textures they develop, so for them to port an FSX product to P3D, the only cost to them is the time required to make a new installer and any changes to the product to make it work correctly in P3D.

 

For aircraft developers it's different. PMDG pays licensing fees to Boeing and Boeing dictates the terms. Since other aircraft developers make aircraft that might not be officially licensed products from Airbus or Boeing, they can do what they please and offer cross platform upgrades with the only only expense to them being the man power to make a new installer and make sure the product works in P3D.

 

So if a RealAir makes a plane simulating the Cessna Citation and they aren't developing on their own and not paying any license fee to Cessna they can do as they please. PMDG on the other hands has to go by the book which includes fees to Boeing, attorney fees, and of course the man hours to make the product fully functioning and compatible with PMDG, hence the extra cost and reason to pay for it again, not to mention P3D is a different platform even though it's similar to FSX.

 

 

Sean Campbell

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I'm a bit confused with "licensing costs" since other developers have released P3D versions either as a free new installer, or the same price as the FSX version.

 

Some of those "other developers" have no other people to license to. Weather program developers, as an example, do not need to seek a new license to license the weather data from Mother Nature (though they may need one from their data source, depending on their source). Scenery developers usually develop the scenery themselves, so, unless they paid a license fee to someone, they have no licensing issues either.

 

I will not address our side of this directly, since it's not my place, but RSR discusses it here:

 

While we are eager to see these products released under P3D, PMDG works with licensed materials and this means we must respect the license control wishes of our licensing partners.  While it may be acceptable for some vendors who are working without intellectual property licenses (think: scenery) or in flagrant violation of intellectual property licenses to release products on multiple platforms without permission of the intelectual property owner, PMDG maintains a strong and respectful relationship with our licensing partners and we will not violate the provisions of such agreements.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/440788-26apr14-p3d-development-status-thread-updated/

 

...and here:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/427010-multi-platform-pricing-policy-expectations-fsxp3dxplane/ (2nd to last paragraph)

 

 

 

--------------------

 

 

 

The rest was of the questions in this thread were addressed here:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/461729-08feb15-p3d-pricing-policy-some-facts-on-this-issue/

 

 

As far as the x64 update goes, see the last section here:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/454218-lockheed-martin-prepar3d-development-status-thread-updated-25oct14/

 

Note the "we anticipate," and not a "we absolutely will."

 

 

 

--------------------

 

 

 

Please understand that this is actually a pretty complicated topic, despite what it may seem on the outside. I can see a little of how it must look from the outside, but I'm hoping the links here help paint the picture a little better for you all.

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Aww heck not this again.

 

FSX = Entertainment = Entertainment Licence = PMDG pays Entertainment license costs to data supplier. You get a very cheap airplane for what you are getting.

 

P3D = Educational / TRAINING Licence (NO ENTERTAINMENT ALLOWED) = PMDG pays commercial licence costs and passes those on to the end user as they should, still resulting in a very cheap airplane for what you are getting.

 

Kyle is quite right; You do not pay a licensing fee to the Earth to license topographic data (ORBX?) or to licence weather data (HiFi?) - merely perhaps fees to access existing data irrespective of use.

 

But enter any sort of proprietary data such as aircraft performance etc, and you will pay, and pay a lot, if the intended product is for commercial training and or learning activities which is what P3D is for.

 

So I wish everyone would stop whining about this like it is PMDG's fault.

 

If you decide to make the change to P3D as I have, you need to accept you have effectively purchased a training and learning sim and will pay for accordingly. I accept I lose access to certain packages and products (JS41) and that is my decision.

 

Don't make it sound like it is the developers fault for following the rules!

 

Caveat: This is in no way intended to be, or provoke, a licensing discussion of any sort. Should this (inevitably) be the case, I want no part of it.

 

Kind regards

 

Wes

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Ok guys,

 

I think I understand all of the arguments and agree with it :)

 

Thx for your contributions !

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I think I understand all of the arguments and agree with it :)
 
Thx for your contributions !

 

Glad to help clear things up!

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