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exodus1977

Oculus Rift and P3D

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I see that the consumer edition of the Oculus Rift VR headset is slated to come out in Q1 2016. Will the headset need a special driver or software to work properly with P3D? (I'm pretty sure I've seen videos of it working wth P3D already...). Also, will using the Rift be less taxing on the GPU, beign that it is only powering two small eyepieces rather than possibly multiple large monitors?

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Please enlighten me, as I know nothing about Oculus Rift (yes I have Googled but....). 

As I understand it, you put on a pair of glasses and you are "in the middle of the scenery".... or? BUT where is the "cockpit feeling"? I still want to see my monitors as "cockpit windows" see and feel the cockpit around me. To me it sounds to technical. Yes I kow i might be wrong, but thats why I ask the question.

 

 

Jack

the Swede in Spain

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It is all about presence (maximum immersion)

Basically the tech is here. Currently in Form of Devkits for the last two years and soon arrives on the consumer Market.

 

It tricks your Brain to think what you see is real.

Just check out the avsim thread linked above for some infos.

 

I could try to explain it but this video does a better job :)

 

https://youtu.be/iACAS_RAneE

 

edit: keep in mind that what you see in the video is the DevKit 1 rather old and dated right now.

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WOW! Great news! Cant wait for it to get released. I think we're approaching a new age of desktop flight simulation :)

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Believe me, Once u`ve tried P3D on VR, u´ll never come back to a 2D monitor. Ever.

 

It´s about being there, and I`m talking about Oculus DK2 whith a resolution that makes it somehow difficult to read the gauges. You can get closer to read them tho, like a track ir. With the new HTC Valve Vive coming on holidays and the new Oculus early next year (both have higher resolution) there´s no other way I´ll use a flight simulator but on VR.

 

U won´t need to see your monitors, because you are in the flight deck, everything´s there, life size.

Actually, the main problem is how do you interact with the cockpit. U still have to use the mouse and your real yoke, but the vive and the new oculus (this one sold separetely) will have yokes to help you interact with your VR environment, allowing pushing buttons and so on.

 

 

I`ve been demoing P3D with VR to many friends, some of them 737 pilots (I work for an airline too,as a flight coordinator), and all of them were absolutely astonished, (I`m too everytime I put the googles on). They couldn´t believe it. You can explain it a thousand times, but you have to experience it to fully understand it.

 

Flyinside is the tool I use for VR with prepar3d right now.

 

Cheers

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the new Oculus early next year (both have higher resolution)

 

I was just looking at that... I know some people were complaining about resolution in the development kit. From a google search: "the DK2, it's noticeably less sharp, with 1080p overall resolution (or 960 x 1080 per eye)."

 

The consumer version will have 2160x1200 (1080x1200 per eye).

 

Also, per my original post... do you think this will be easier on the GPU?

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Also, per my original post... do you think this will be easier on the GPU?

No. It will eat up your Hardware like a hungry Bear.

 

Good thing is, nvidia released the first VR SLI Driver some days ago. I need a second gtx970 soon ;)

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I was just looking at that... I know some people were complaining about resolution in the development kit. From a google search: "the DK2, it's noticeably less sharp, with 1080p overall resolution (or 960 x 1080 per eye)."

 

The consumer version will have 2160x1200 (1080x1200 per eye).

 

Also, per my original post... do you think this will be easier on the GPU?

 

Actually is far worse. Have in mind that in VR your field of View is huge (about 110º) that means it´s rendering an enormous dome al arround you.  So if you stretch your 2D resolution of 1080p to cover such huge field of view, you´ll end with pixels as big as a fist and the famous screen door effect. So, the solution will be higher resolutions (4K being a good milestone) but the companies have some shortcuts and the next generation of VR devices will be pretty good (resolution and frame friendly talking) with resolutions not as high as 4k. Anyway imagine the beast you need to move those resolutions at high frames. That´s the main problem.

 

 

No. It will eat up your Hardware like a hungry Bear.

 

Good thing is, nvidia released the first VR SLI Driver some days ago. I need a second gtx970 soon ;)

 

I´d say a dozen of hungry bears to be precise :)

 

 

Cheers

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Chass32,

 

What has your experience been in regards to motion sickness?  From what I've read, although newer hardware has improved this - and it's supposed to be even better with production models - with current hardware, it's still a major issue for some, to the point where they start to sick up and even get flashes of vertigo after playing.  That said, I also read it's not as bad for cockpit type VR environments?  Have you or any of your friends suffered from motion sickness when trying it out for more than just a few minutes?

 

Thanks,

JB

 

 

Believe me, Once u`ve tried P3D on VR, u´ll never come back to a 2D monitor. Ever.

 

It´s about being there, and I`m talking about Oculus DK2 whith a resolution that makes it somehow difficult to read the gauges. You can get closer to read them tho, like a track ir. With the new HTC Valve Vive coming on holidays and the new Oculus early next year (both have higher resolution) there´s no other way I´ll use a flight simulator but on VR.

 

U won´t need to see your monitors, because you are in the flight deck, everything´s there, life size.

Actually, the main problem is how do you interact with the cockpit. U still have to use the mouse and your real yoke, but the vive and the new oculus (this one sold separetely) will have yokes to help you interact with your VR environment, allowing pushing buttons and so on.

 

 

I`ve been demoing P3D with VR to many friends, some of them 737 pilots (I work for an airline too,as a flight coordinator), and all of them were absolutely astonished, (I`m too everytime I put the googles on). They couldn´t believe it. You can explain it a thousand times, but you have to experience it to fully understand it.

 

Flyinside is the tool I use for VR with prepar3d right now.

 

Cheers

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Chass32,

 

What has your experience been in regards to motion sickness?  From what I've read, although newer hardware has improved this - and it's supposed to be even better with production models - with current hardware, it's still a major issue for some, to the point where they start to sick up and even get flashes of vertigo after playing.  That said, I also read it's not as bad for cockpit type VR environments?  Have you or any of your friends suffered from motion sickness when trying it out for more than just a few minutes?

 

Thanks,

JB

None on simulator cockpit VR environments (perhaps a little on assetto corsa, but I think that's related at being forced to watch the track carefully at high speeds and a not very sharp resolution). I've been hours on P3D, not a single second of motion sickness, me or my friends. Been many hours, several in a row, with elite dangerous and no sickness at all. Same with DCS (feeling a bit weird if u start to loop like a madman, but I'm pretty sure u'd feel the same in real life).

On the other hand I get massive motion sickness with many games, mainly those where you have to walk around ( alien is awesome, u are in the spaceship, literally, being chased by the alien, it's awesome but I can't play it for more than 5 minutes when I star sweating and getting sick.

I'm pretty sure they'll get rid of motion sickness eventually, but if VR only worked safely with simulators it would be worthy.

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I've been hours on P3D, not a single second of motion sickness, me or my friends. Been many hours, several in a row, with elite dangerous and no sickness at all. Same with DCS (feeling a bit weird if u start to loop like a madman, but I'm pretty sure u'd feel the same in real life).

 

What is in your opinion the minimum frame rate necessary to have a good experience with the Oculus Rift?

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Here are some official Details about what is generally required performance-wise,

The Rift runs at 2160×1200 at 90Hz split over dual displays, consuming 233 million pixels per second. 
At the default eye-target scale, the Rift’s rendering requirements go much higher: around 400 million shaded pixels per second. 
This means that by raw rendering costs alone, a VR game will require approximately 3x the GPU power of 1080p rendering.

The current available DK2 needs 75fps, the consumer Version is designed for 90fps.

 

However, the Dev behing Flyinside FSX (and before DCOC) implemented "asynchronous timewarp" this means if you have constant 30fps you can achieve a more or less judder free and smooth visual quality. I can confirm this works very well with DK2 but i dont think this applies for the CV1.

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What is in your opinion the minimum frame rate necessary to have a good experience with the Oculus Rift?

 

The more you can get the better, of course, but if you want a smooth experience on DK2, the frames should be around 75 (don´t scare just yet) and in the consumer version should be aorund 90fps. That´s a lot, indeed, but Oculus created a technology called Timewarp. What is it? I quote from flyinside kickstarter campaign "If you look to the left, but the last picture the Rift has is not quite in the right place, it will stretch and move the image to match. Even if the software falls behind, the illusion is maintained and the virtual world feels real!  If FSX stutters a little bit, or it misses a frame, FlyInside picks up the slack. It uses timewarp in a parallel manner, sometimes multiple times in a row, to fill in the gaps while FSX is busy. You can turn up your graphical settings, and even while FSX is stuck loading a new chunk of landscape or buildings, FlyInside will keep your view smooth and immersive."

 

It´s witchcraft, believe me xD I`ve got an i7 with a 780 and Asynchronous Timewarp gives me a constant 75fps and with some carenado planes (I don´t have PMDG 737. Hard to get 75 with it, probably). The truth is, that since you use oculus DK2 with its graphics limitations, you don´t need all the graphic  sliders to the right. Flyinside takes care of it for you (if you want of course), and personally I don´t use auto-gen since I fly with photoreal scenery and that´s a big hit on frames. The immersion is so overwhelming that you don´t really miss those nice HD graphics . The only problem is reading the gauges properly. You have to get close to them phisically, but that will be solved with the consumer version of the googles.

But with the consumer version, and its improved graphics,I`m afraid we´ll have to get a 980ti to fully enjoy it (I might be wrong tho)

 

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Has anyone come across any updates on how this will all work with the retail version.. will the reports of gauges being blurry still be an issue.. is the flyinside fsx software still the best bet for making it all work the best..

 

I've pre-ordered the retail kit.. i've got a 780ti 3GB and i'm hoping its at least the equivalent to the min required 980 gtx baseline (seems to be) and will work well enough.. very curious here.

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Has anyone come across any updates on how this will all work with the retail version.. will the reports of gauges being blurry still be an issue.. is the flyinside fsx software still the best bet for making it all work the best..

 

I've pre-ordered the retail kit.. i've got a 780ti 3GB and i'm hoping its at least the equivalent to the min required 980 gtx baseline (seems to be) and will work well enough.. very curious here.

I saw something the other day about some other company coming out with a headset where you mash a button and gives you a forward looking camera view. May have been Sony....not sure. No one knows for sure but information leans in the direction of at lest 1 980TI to get any decent performance.

Since this is a flight Sim Forum....one should use a lot of caution with this new Tech. I have not been convinced that it is going to be all that great for us in the early days. May be worth investing in if you like the bang bang shoot um up stuff. 

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I think it's likely to be best for Helicopters, light GA and fighter jets.

 

Really anything where the benefit of looking around a lot is huge and also where control is either simpler and/or is mostly mapped to the joystick/peripherals.

 

The gauge reading thing sounds like the main issue.

 

I'm also curious about the HTC offering as it has an external camera which could be super handy to trigger when you need to see something on a tablet or the keyboard, etc

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 I am using DK2 at full resolution with a 6 core 4.2 Ghz CPU and an Nv970. With Flyinside, I run very smooth (nearly judder free) with medium settings. I move the pilot eyepoint to be quite close to the glareshield but still so I can see all instruments reasonably clearly. Seeing the center console on CS777 is difficult (I can't lean down enough) and the FMS CDU is difficult to read but most other instruments are pretty clear. The DEV of Flyinside (Dan Church) has added features so you can have other sim support (popup GTN750, Moving Maps, etc.) windows inside the cockpit (toggle button on/off) and there is a local zoom feature. I changed from a standard Logitech Extreme 3D pro joystick to a $30 Thrustmaster HOTAS so I have separate throttle with a lot of buttons but I found that Voice Activation is really the best way to control things - for me, many buttons requires a lot of remembering for the mapping. Apps like VAC and Multi Crew Experience let you feel some company in the VR cockpit - a first officer - you just map your voice commands to the keyboard.

    I really enjoy this compared to my previous three monitor configuration. When you fly your F22 (or H-60 Heli without doors) down just above the the surface of the Colorado River inside the Grand Canyon, and look way up to the rim, you are doing something you will never do otherwise in real life. I also fly DCS World Version 2 with the A-10C in the new Las Vegas scenery with Nellis and Groom Lake. Looking out to your right wing as you fire some rockets or watch the other aircraft in the scene as you look even further back over your head as you execute a chandelle to keep your eyes on the target, an amazing feeling. DCS World has most of the buildings and trees with shadows (run at late afternoon with some clouds) of Downtown Vegas along with many static airliners at McCarran - (the Russkis are coming - make your own mission). When Asynchronous Time Warp is added in DCS World (it's already in Flyinside for FSX/P3D), there will be less judder - or get a 980ti.

   Yes, I would like a clearer image so I could see the bad guys at longer range. I would like a little more Antialiasing with FSX/P3D - seems just fine in DCS World. You should be able to buy a DK2 cheaper from eBay or whatever when the CV1 ($600 is too much for me) starts to ship in April/May. Now I don't have to build a cockpit to get the feeling and all the virtual cockpit developers are making it SO real.

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Has anyone come across any updates on how this will all work with the retail version.. will the reports of gauges being blurry still be an issue.. is the flyinside fsx software still the best bet for making it all work the best..

 

I've pre-ordered the retail kit.. i've got a 780ti 3GB and i'm hoping its at least the equivalent to the min required 980 gtx baseline (seems to be) and will work well enough.. very curious here.

Actually the minimum recommended is a 970 which I have. Regarding your question Flyinside will be working on an update as soon as he gets the CV1.

 

He will be working on perfomance improvements using Envidia Gameworks. Unfortunately only those who use P3d and have a 970+ can enjoy those improvements. There are going to be huge improvement in the not distant future when the implement foveated rendering.

 

I have been using oculus Rift to fly on Ivao and can tell you it cant get any more inmersive. Well, yes. I started using Fs2crew as well... you might not know it guys but in 5 years you will all be simming in VR.

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The problem is that Envidia Gameworks only works on the 900s. You will be able to use sli (one card per eye)and multishading rendering (less pixels on your perferial vision therefore better perfomance)

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 I am using DK2 at full resolution with a 6 core 4.2 Ghz CPU and an Nv970. With Flyinside, I run very smooth (nearly judder free) with medium settings. I move the pilot eyepoint to be quite close to the glareshield but still so I can see all instruments reasonably clearly. Seeing the center console on CS777 is difficult (I can't lean down enough) and the FMS CDU is difficult to read but most other instruments are pretty clear. The DEV of Flyinside (Dan Church) has added features so you can have other sim support (popup GTN750, Moving Maps, etc.) windows inside the cockpit (toggle button on/off) and there is a local zoom feature. I changed from a standard Logitech Extreme 3D pro joystick to a $30 Thrustmaster HOTAS so I have separate throttle with a lot of buttons but I found that Voice Activation is really the best way to control things - for me, many buttons requires a lot of remembering for the mapping. Apps like VAC and Multi Crew Experience let you feel some company in the VR cockpit - a first officer - you just map your voice commands to the keyboard.

    I really enjoy this compared to my previous three monitor configuration. When you fly your F22 (or H-60 Heli without doors) down just above the the surface of the Colorado River inside the Grand Canyon, and look way up to the rim, you are doing something you will never do otherwise in real life. I also fly DCS World Version 2 with the A-10C in the new Las Vegas scenery with Nellis and Groom Lake. Looking out to your right wing as you fire some rockets or watch the other aircraft in the scene as you look even further back over your head as you execute a chandelle to keep your eyes on the target, an amazing feeling. DCS World has most of the buildings and trees with shadows (run at late afternoon with some clouds) of Downtown Vegas along with many static airliners at McCarran - (the Russkis are coming - make your own mission). When Asynchronous Time Warp is added in DCS World (it's already in Flyinside for FSX/P3D), there will be less judder - or get a 980ti.

   Yes, I would like a clearer image so I could see the bad guys at longer range. I would like a little more Antialiasing with FSX/P3D - seems just fine in DCS World. You should be able to buy a DK2 cheaper from eBay or whatever when the CV1 ($600 is too much for me) starts to ship in April/May. Now I don't have to build a cockpit to get the feeling and all the virtual cockpit developers are making it SO real.

Thanks for these details.. this does sound quite promising.. but yeah i jumped the gun on retail.. i come from a current triple screen setup with the 780ti over 3 24" screens, which often can slow the frames down in heavy weather or with traffic (not that often).. how does dk2 hold up when you hit weather?  What sort of frames are you getting on avg.. oculus seems to tout the need for 90 fps which seems crazy high for most p3d (im usually at around 27-38 mostly, but at a super high res 5760).. i guess maybe the flyinside helps smooth that out as you say?  I also have some dcs world software.. sounds great as well.

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@whitav8

 

Thanks for that great report. That sounds very promising indeed!!

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I personally am waiting for the HTC Vive as it will launch with controllers and seems to have much better reviews on its screen, immersion, the forward facing camera, and general functionality. Also, they have more companies working with them in the game development industry including Dovetail Games who will likely integrate functionality into their new sim. 

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I personally am waiting for the HTC Vive as it will launch with controllers and seems to have much better reviews on its screen, immersion, the forward facing camera, and general functionality. Also, they have more companies working with them in the game development industry including Dovetail Games who will likely integrate functionality into their new sim.

 

Hard for me to get excited about the Vive until its price is revealed (hopefully soon).

 

In terms of the Dovetail "new FSX" thing....do we even know a single thing about their plans? That just sounds like vaporware until any actual details come out. Hard to get excited about that for me right now.

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