But I didn't do a Route Copy at the begiinning.

Mike

You don't need to do a route copy at the beginning. I usually do it once I have cleared 100000 ft. and there not so many things that need to be done. RTE 1 only goes to the transition for the STAR I plan to use. No STAR or runway is in RTE 1. Once I have done the Route Copy, I then add the appropriate STAR and runway to both routes.

 

I am sure there are situations in the real world where the request for RTE 2 can be used. Though I don't see it being very useful in a simulation. We are in the simulation world so why not just use Route Copy that we know works correctly.

I think the Route Request thing may be a red herring. It's just a different way to load a saved route. You could just as easily load a COROUTE. So whether or not datalink should work isn't the point.

 

Intuitively you would think the two routes would share the same PERF INIT data. Maybe that isn't the case in the sim and you need to copy it from RTE1 to RTE2.

 

Hopefully someone from PMDG can shed some light on this.

I've just tried a simple test on ground. Having loaded RTE1 and filled in the PERF INIT information I ACTIVATED that and got a complete route but not altitudes. I then selected a departure runway for RTE1 and speeds/altitudes were filled in. Then I tried loading RTE2 as a COROUTE (which is in essence what the DATA UPLINK simulation does but without the associated indications). The waypoints loaded OK, but when I activated the route no speed/altitudes were present. After I selected a departure runway for RTE2 the LEGS page showed speed/altitude information. So far, so good.

 

In flight, having taken off and climbed to cruise on RTE1 with no RTE2 loaded, when I tried loading a COROUTE for RTE2 I got the route legs but no VNAV data. I tried adding a RTE2 dep rwy but that had no effect. I noticed the VNAV page showed the correct cruise level (FL370) but the Step Climb was showing as FL310 and unable. Finally, RTE COPY from 1 to 2 created a complete route with VNAV data. It seems some vital piece of information is missing when loading a route as opposed to copying RTE1 to RTE2.

 

Clearly a workaround is to use RTE COPY to create RTE2 rather than load it or create it from scratch.

Hi, everyone

 

Here is the reply from PMDG Tech Support:

 

"Route Request is not a function that should be available in flight.  It is used only on the ground to call up an company created route to be loaded into the FMC.  It is OK to copy the route after you have completed the route during preflight so that it is available if needed but pulling a new route, enroute is not going to work properly in the FMC and should actually be inhibited.   I will ask the team to look at disabling the feature in the air mode in a future update."

 

In other words, using Route Request should not be available at all after takeoff, as I read it.  The proper procedure is to use Route Copy, either on the ground or in the air.  it works just fine in either situation.  So those of you who suggested that it was only meant to be available on the ground -- Michael, as you said, it is only discussed in relation to ground operations -- were correct.  And those who said it's better to use Route Copy were also on the mark.  Thanks to Romain, Michael and Kevin for experimenting with this, and thanks to Dan for filling us in on RW procedures and his own practice (which would have avoided the problem I encountered).

 

We did find a bug, but the bug is not that Route Request doesn't work properly in flight, the bug is that it is available in flight at all.

 

PMDG asks that people not expect this fix to be available right away or to start inundating them with requests for a fix -- it will have to wait for the next update. 

 

Mike

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for posting! Good news that it helps improving even a bit more the T7. And it brought a good deal of knowledge regarding the real T7 and the rw procedures.

Thanks also to Michael and Dan!

One additional post on this. The ROUTE COPY works fine at anytime during cruise. At 8:45 into a ten hour flight I copied RTE 1 to RTE 2 with only two waypoints remaining in the route. Selected the appropriate STAR and APPROACH for the two routes. Everything worked ok.  

 

Hi, everyone

 

Here is the reply from PMDG Tech Support:

 

"Route Request is not a function that should be available in flight. It is used only on the ground to call up an company created route to be loaded into the FMC. It is OK to copy the route after you have completed the route during preflight so that it is available if needed but pulling a new route, enroute is not going to work properly in the FMC and should actually be inhibited. I will ask the team to look at disabling the feature in the air mode in a future update."

 

In other words, using Route Request should not be available at all after takeoff, as I read it. The proper procedure is to use Route Copy, either on the ground or in the air. it works just fine in either situation. So those of you who suggested that it was only meant to be available on the ground -- Michael, as you said, it is only discussed in relation to ground operations -- were correct. And those who said it's better to use Route Copy were also on the mark. Thanks to Romain, Michael and Kevin for experimenting with this, and thanks to Dan for filling us in on RW procedures and his own practice (which would have avoided the problem I encountered).

 

We did find a bug, but the bug is not that Route Request doesn't work properly in flight, the bug is that it is available in flight at all.

 

PMDG asks that people not expect this fix to be available right away or to start inundating them with requests for a fix -- it will have to wait for the next update.

 

Mike

Yes, but it's not just ROUTE REQUEST that isn't working. Any kind of route creation doesn't work. I can't find anything in the FCOM that says this isn't possible in flight.

I can't find anything in the FCOM that says this isn't possible in flight.

Did you run across anything in the FCOM that said it is possible? When you say create a route are you talking about a route that would be completely different than what is in RTE 1 meaning that a ROUTE COPY would not work?

Did you run across anything in the FCOM that said it is possible? When you say create a route are you talking about a route that would be completely different than what is in RTE 1 meaning that a ROUTE COPY would not work?

I meant create a route by loading from scratch. It doesn't really matter whether it's the same as a loaded route for testing purposes. PERF data will always be the same for both routes anyway. Arrival data can be different of course.

 

The FCOM usually mentions if something behaves differently in flight and on ground. It doesn't appear to in this case. It describes what is necessary to get VNAV enabled. Nor does it say ROUTE REQUEST doesn't work in flight either. And why shouldn't that work, in theory at least?

 

Also, imagine if you lost the route in flight after a power loss. You would think it should be possible to make a new one.

 

 

I meant create a route by loading from scratch.

I am trying to understand the issue. I have two EDDF-KIAH routes saved in PFPX. If I export from PFPX EDDFKIAH01 and load into the T7 as a CO ROUTE then I should be able to enter EDDFKIAH02 into RTE 2 line by line using the keypad or keyboard. Is this correct? 

I am trying to understand the issue. I have two EDDF-KIAH routes saved in PFPX. If I export from PFPX EDDFKIAH01 and load into the T7 as a CO ROUTE then I should be able to enter EDDFKIAH02 into RTE 2 line by line using the keypad or keyboard. Is this correct? 

Yes, I think you should be able to load RTE 2 as either a COROUTE or airway by airway. The issue is how to get it to compute a vertical profile.

 

However I've just had another attempt and managed to get a new RTE 2 to calculate a vertical profile. I found that if I gave RTE 2 both a departure and an arrival runway then it will compute VNAV information. I guess this is why RTE COPY works, because RTE 1 will include this information.

 

 

I meant create a route by loading from scratch.

 

I ran into that too and used RTE COPY to load RTE 2 from RTE 1 and started making changes to RTE 2 while enroute. I thought about it for a few seconds, decided that maybe it was because of how ORIG is unchangeable somehow and left it at that.  You are right, there's nothing in the FCOM but the first place I'd look is the FCTM but doubt it's there either. I assumed that it was correct behavior.